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Chronicles of Narnia & Harry Potter

This topic has 30 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 6 months ago by Sonya Shafer.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 31 total)

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October 25, 2010 at 3:01 pm
thepinkballerina
Participant
If a book, movie, or any other entertainment doesn’t pass the Philipians 4:8 or Ephes 5:11-12 “test” we don’t allow it in our home…
Philipians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Ephesians 5:11-12 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
I personally don’t believe Narnia is “safe” over HP or Twilight. Neither are Disney movies, Dora, and the like that contain witches. All are of the world whether you put a Christian label on it or not. We all will be held accountable before our Lord, and I don’t like to mess around with anything that is of the occult. The bible makes it very clear that witchcraft is forbidden, and we aren’t even to talk about those things. I would feel uneasy about entertaining myself with ideas that I know are forbidden of the Lord to practice.
Galations 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Tara
October 25, 2010 at 4:38 pm
csmamma
Participant
Okay, Tara has a good point in answering my question as to why Narnia would be “safe” over HP. She (and Amanda) have pointed us to scripture which seems to command us to stay away from things such as these. So, what do we do with these clear instructions from God? Now, I question this because we currently are a Narnia loving family. Are there scriptures that say we are allowed these things? Do you feel God approves of one over the other? As you can tell this is my BIG question. Now, my first reaction is that HE does approve of Narnia because of the redeeming qualities and the obvious portrayal of Christ pointing us to God. I use to shun Narnia because of the very scriptures that the ladies have quoted until I was encouraged by a Pastor to read them. Once I read them, I was blown away with the beauty of Christs character displayed throughout. Those of you who are against Narnia, have you read them? Do you feel it would be outright disobediant of you to do so? These questions are with all due respect only trying to see both sides. My thoughts are random, forgive me – we’re about to head out.
October 25, 2010 at 4:55 pm
thepinkballerina
Participant
Remember Narnia is written by a man, so just because C.S. Lewis says it points to Christ, doesn’t mean God says it does. Let God be true and every man a liar. I do feel I’d be in disobedience to God knowing it contained witchcraft. Entertainment can have control over our thoughts. I still have rock music I listened to ages ago running in my head time to time, and I haven’t listened to it since only hymns and praise music. Images stick in our minds forever! We mustn’t let Satan have a stronghold on our minds. The battle is in the mind our pastor reminds us!
Love the Lord with all our heart, soul and MIND. 🙂 I think it best instead of ourselves making decisions on what we *think* God would have us do, we should seek Him first, and wait til He gives us clear direction. If it doesnt seem right with your soul, it is the Holy Spirit more than likely warning you (general you).
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Tara
October 25, 2010 at 6:23 pm
Hope
Member
This is an interesting discussion for sure. My children are young so we are not addressing these books yet. I have read the Narnia series though it has been awhile. I have not read Harry Potter so it’s hard for me to have an opinion on these, but I do think there are differences.
My interpretation of scripture on witchcraft is that we are not to practice witchcraft. Anytime it’s mentioned in scripture, from my understanding, the reference is to the practice of witchcraft. I would think this would include glorifying or promoting it as well. That to me is where HP and Narnia differ. HP is all about the practice of witchcraft and while set in a fantasy world, there appears to be much in correlation to witchcraft that is actually practiced in our world. Narnia is pure fiction and to me there is no glorifying or promoting witchcraft. In fact, I believe it to be redeeming and has allowed me to have some great conversations about Christ and God with my brother who is not a believer.
Remember Galatians 5 also tells us to live by the spirit and if we do we will not live by gratifying sinful desires. Currently, I plan on reading the Narnia series with my boys and do not have feel any conviction to abstain from it. That being said, my convictions have deepened and changed over time so I will continue to make prayerful decisions about our literature choices and follow the spirit’s leading with Narnia as my boys reach the age to enjoy them.
October 25, 2010 at 6:36 pm
ruth
Participant
Understanding (hopefuly) the heart of those that have writen the bible passages above, another question comes to mind. Perhaps a better question to ask than is one better than the other (litterarily, yes), is does reading a book about or containing witchcraft and magic go aginst His word? To me it seems that reading about something and participating first hand in it, are different. Now of corse, some will be more affected by certain books than others. If fantasy is an issue for you (general), then hopefully you will have the strenght to stay away from such literature. For me it is not, and therefore I can read HP and Narnia without any affect. However, as I said before other books do affect me differently. I think the important thing to remember is to know ourselves and our weekness. But we cannot really know ourselve until we are more in adulthood. My feelings for all these more contraversial types of literature and media is to wait until the children are old enough to decern for themselve how a book would affect them, with gidence if needed, and let them chose to read these books and then discuss the books with them.
ruth
October 25, 2010 at 7:25 pm
LindseyD
Participant
It is absolutely important and vital to our welfare as believers to abstain from every appearance of evil. Not only do we want to portray a bad or false witness to the outside world, but we also do not want to give the enemy a stronghold of any type in our hearts or minds. Phil. 4:8 is the standard by which we measure everything in our house, so I think we all agree on that issue.
My issue, however, is with us not preparing our children sufficiently for the world in which they will inevitably live. That is why, in my first post, I said there comes a point when we have to have confidence in what we have trained and taught our children to believe and allow them to choose for themselves. As much as I might want to, I cannot control what my children choose once they are no longer living under my authority. Nevertheless, I can control what they are exposed to and when during their time with me, so as to facilitate discussions that point toward the Bible and an abundant life in Christ.
I know, at some point, my child (whether young or adult) will be exposed to something I don’t want them to see, or read something that doesn’t line up with our beliefs. We live in the world! Think of all the sin Christ Himself was exposed to during His short time on earth: prostitution, legalism, the defilement on the temple, the list goes on and on. He could have fallen into those traps just as easily as you or I because of His humanness. Instead, He chose differently. He longed to do the will of His Father in heaven. He had been raised by godly parents, learned of God’s Word as a boy in the synagogue, and spent countless hours alone with His Father in prayer and fasting. He was prepared for the world He came to save. He had a strong foundation to be able to resist evil.
I believe we can create that strong foundation for our children as well, but not at the expense of cloistering them their entire lives. How can our children ever have a defense for their beliefs if their beliefs are never challenged? It would be unfair to allow my child to marry, leave my home, and not give him or her the needed tools to live on their own. I would rather they find out about the evils of witchcraft under my guidance and careful supervision and learn how to discern the truths from the lies than be exposed to it unprepared in an unprotected environment. We must prepare them for the sinful world which they will eventually be a part.
It is my strong but very humble opinion (and not meaning to upset or offend anyone) that Christianity is not something we can hide behind our entire lives. Yes, we stay true to our beliefs, our faith, and our Lord, but we cannot shut the doors and hide from the world forever. Neither can our children. I do not believe Christ wants us to live that way. The moment we accepted Christ into our hearts, we bore the responsibility of a mission to minister to a lost and hurting world. How can we minister to that world if we are not familiar with it? Likewise, how can our children?
Jesus spent His three years of ministry training the twelve men to be like Him. He used that time to teach them truth, to identify sin, to build their faith, and to prepare them to go out and do the things He did, and even greater things (John 14:12). That is exactly what I am called to as a parent. It is my job to teach and prepare; but ultimately it is up to my children to make a choice for or against Christ, to follow His Word or not. I can shelter them, hide them, not allow TV or literature or anything but the Bible in our home, but it is ultimately up to them to choose for themselves whom they will serve. I believe I owe it to them to make an informed decision on their own.
This has been much longer than I intended, but the more I think on it, the more passionate I become about this subject. Whether we read Narnia or HP or LOTR or anything else, we open ourselves and our children up to, not become influenced this way or that way, but to learn to discern truth from lie, to be able to defend their faith, and to be ready to preach the Word in season and out of season, to convince, exhort, and rebuke with all longsuffering and teaching (1. Tim. 4:2).
I hope you all read this in the manner in which it was intended. I do speak this in love and humility, knowing that God can use this conversation and you ladies to bring about Truth in my own life.
Blessings,
Lindsey
October 25, 2010 at 8:32 pm
missingtheshire
Member
I think you expressed yourself beautifully Lindsey, and I tend to agree – my husband and I rasised the girls to know right from wrong, good from evil and fact from fiction and to look for ways that the world we live in can trick them. Anything controversial has always been discussed in our family, and at 18 the girls are at that point where they will soon get the chance to vote for the first time. If they can vote and discern the various views of the candidates, then they can discern the difference in good and bad literature and movies etc. That was my goal from day one – and I can truthfully say, they both make very smart choices and are clear in what they think about things. Each of us has our own views and none of the views are more right than others – it is interesting to read the differences in opinions and to share thoughts in this way – I think if we are all comfotable with our own choices in regards to how we view these things, then we have done the right thing for our own family. Blessings to all Linda
October 25, 2010 at 8:49 pm
Sanveann
Member
Our boys are too young for such long books right now, but we are both big Harry Potter fans and are looking forward to sharing the books with the boys as they get older. (I am thinking late elementary for the earlier books, then reading the later books in middle school and high school.)
Personally, I feel that the magic in HP is very, very far removed from actual witchcraft … so I feel that the risk of confusion for kids is pretty low. Like with anything, though, if I felt my kids were taking an excessive interest in that aspect of the books, I would stop reading them.
I know some people dislike HP because they feel Harry and his friends are disobedient, but I think the “kids are trying to save the world while clueless adults ignore the problem” theme is awfully common in kids’ literature! In the books, most of the instances of the kids being disobedient was because they were -trying- to do the right thing … and I do want my kids to do the right thing even if authority figures tell them not to, so that aspect of it doesn’t bother me.
As for Narnia, we are definitely going to share those books with the kids 🙂 The POV I’ve heard from some people who are pro-Narnia but not HP is that Narnia has a “Christian worldview.” I don’t know that young children would necessarily get that, though!
Also, what do you all think about “Lord of the Rings”? Tolkien also had a Christian worldview, so I know many people who are not OK with most fantasy books are OK with LOTR. (My husband loves the books, but I have to confess I’ve never been able to get through them)! I do love the movies, though, and am definitely looking forward to seeing those with the boys when they’re old enough.
As for “Twilight” … well, even if it did have a redeeming message (it doesn’t), it’s just BAD. Incredibly schlocky writing.
October 25, 2010 at 9:36 pm
csmamma
Participant
In my brief reading of your posts so far, you’ve all given me some food-for-(prayerful)thought.
As far as your question about LOTR, Sanveann; Though I’m sure others will respond, heres an old link that touched on it a bit http://simplycharlottemason.com/scmforum/topic/lord-of-the-rings-trilogy#post-11517
Thank you all SO MUCH, for taking the time to respond.
October 26, 2010 at 12:37 am
Rebekahy
Participant
And here to stir the pot… Alright, seriously not TRYING to stir the pot, but interested in some good coversation because this really is an issue I struggle with. While we would never do Harry Potter because of the glorification of witchcraft, we do – do princesses, though we tend to stick to the less scary ones – Cinderella and the Fairy Godmother, Mary Poppins, Barbie as the Island Princess etc… Now, despite the fact that we allow those things, I’m conflicted about it, because I do agree with Phil. 4:8 – it being in the Bible and all. And while I’d like to be convinced by Lindsey’s argument (not meaning to single you out, because I always enjoy reading your posts, and often identify with you!), I don’t see either explicit Biblical support for it or even anecdotal evidence that intentionally exposing our children to things we don’t want them to see is what God wants for us (don’t get me wrong – I’m still letting my own girls watch Princess “witchcraft”, but I have no scriptural references to give you on why I do). And while I agree that we can’t keep our children from everything that we might want to, I do think that even under the most vigilient care they’ll probably be exposed to more than enough to prepare them to enter “the world” – (cue scary music – dundun dunda.) So basically, I’m not looking for an argument on why withholding it is scriptural or even a compelling argument why NOT withholding it is “right/good” – I’m looking for specific scriptural references or Biblical instances that trump Phil. 4:8. (NOT to change anyone else’s mind, but in hopes that I can have peace of mind that I don’t have to cut out all princesses – in a house of four girls that’s likely to cause the formation of a militia.)
Next, I just wonder if the standard of “it’s ok to read about it, but not ok to do it” really stands the test. So where do you draw the line? Witchcraft – ok. Theft – ok Lying – ok Pornography… and there it seems to breakdown. Are there some things that our children are just going to know about regardless so it’s ok? For instance – theft, as long as the theft is not glorified and there are natural reprecussions then I would probably be ok with my children reading a book/watching a movie that includes theft. (Where does that leave Oceans 11? Goodbye George, goodbye Brad, Goodbye Matt ). But graphic sexuality… not going to read about it, not going to watch it – do we really need to put that into our kids minds, better not to even plant the seed, right? So what makes witchcraft in line with theft, and not in line with graphic sexuality? I don’t know.
I do SO appreciate the friendly disucussion and thoughtful answers on this board. It’s such a safe place to discuss topics that we may not feel at liberty to discuss with our “friends”. You should have SEEN the hornet’s nest I stirred with my halloween post on FB last year – sheesh, you would have thought I attacked Christ himself with the way my Christian friends defended their participation in halloween festivities, but I disgress.
Rebekah
October 26, 2010 at 1:24 am
lakrueger
Member
Very interesting thread! Rebekah, I’ve just got to throw in my 2 cents’ worth. Unfortunately I don’t have the time at the moment to pull Scriptural references, but there are some principles you will find throughout Scripture. Oh, and before I forget – I don’t think you’ll ever find Scripture that will trump other verses and contradict itself allowing us to do what we want to (although that sure would be handy!). If you think you have found contradictions like that then something has probably been taken out of context.
First of all, in Scripture if a person was ceremonially clean and they came in contact with somthing unclean they became unclean – the unclean item never became clean. It would be sort of like trying to clean yourself off with a muddy facecloth. It just won’t work.
In the New Testament, I believe in Revelation, we see the Bride of Christ (believers) and it says that she has made herself clean or kept herself clean. While Christ is the One who cleanses us from our sins and gives us salvation, it is then up to us to keep ourselves clean. No, we aren’t keeping ourselves saved and we won’t be without sin.  Thankfully God will continue to forgive our sins until we go home to be with Him. But we should be mindful about what we do/watch/hear so that we don’t sully ourselves again and go back to the filth that He has lifted us out of.
Witchcraft is an abomination to the Lord, so we try to avoid it and we don’t purposely expose our son to it. Books/movies that glorify it and even tutor children in the ways of witchcraft (like HP) are not allowed. As we have only one son we never did the princess thing, but it wouldn’t have mattered if we had a boy or girl. If it had witchcraft, however cute, we would have avoided it. And I’m saying this as someone who grew up on all the Disney cartoons, etc. I must say that they really did affect me and that as I grew I wanted to be able to think something and have it happen or have a fairy godmother who could swish her magic wand and give me what I wanted. Unfortunately that led me down some very bad paths before the Lord saved me.
There are very few movies that I watch now – your reference to Oceans 11 has me stumped . My rule is that if I don’t want our son to watch it, I don’t watch it – plain and simple. Even when I see things on TV as I’m switching channels, if there is something that would be too violent or graphic in some other way, of if there are actors in it who would set my mind to wandering then off it goes. Once we see something we can’t “un-see” it. What you say is true – where would you draw the line? Is a little bit of sin okay, but if it gets bigger it’s not? I will leave you with an illustration that I used once on our son. If I made a pan of brownies and put just a little bit of doggie doo in it would you want to have some? There’s just a little bit of doo! As for me, I like simple and I appreciate very much that the Lord has tried to make things simple for us. Following isn’t always easy, but He’ll help us as we try!
Linda

October 26, 2010 at 1:24 am
Sanveann
Member
Rebekah, I guess where I draws the line for myself is, how does it affect your heart? And what is the -intent- of the book (or movie, or TV show)? Does it glorify sin or make it look attractive?
For me, “Harry Potter” never made me interested in casting spells and the like — in fact, the idea is almost funny, because in the series, only a few people are born with that ability. (And since I never got my letter from Hogwarts, I guess I’m not one of them, lol!) Of course, it someone IS for some reason tempted to try spells or whatever, I would advise them to avoid fantasy literature.
Obviously pornography is a no-way, because it involves the exploitation of others and is deliberately created to arouse people. Is Harry Potter deliberately created to entice people to witchcraft? (I seriously doubt it … if it was, I’d consider it a massive failure.) Does it glorify it? Some might argue that it does, but I think any child who attempted to open a lock by waving a wand and saying, “Alohamora!” would be very quickly realize that the magic in the books is NOT real. It’s honestly about as realistic as about a bunch of kids who can fly.
Stories about magic have been around for centuries, as evidence by numerous, numerous fairy tales. If you’re going to get rid of Disney princesses and Harry Potter and Narnia, you’re also going to have to get rid of “The Wizard of Oz” and the Arthurian legends and “The Tempest” and “A Midsummer Night’s Dream” and a lot of other literature!
Phil 4:8 is a beautiful verse and one of my favorites, but truth and beauty and goodness can be found even in stories with some “bad” elements. In fact, I’d argue that those stories can be even MORE beautiful, because the triumph of the good over the bad is so uplifting. If stories were ONLY about good people doing good things, they wouldn’t be in any way reflective of real life.
For example, take “To Kill a Mockingbird” — one of the best books of modern times, IMHO. (I’m not recommending it for children here, btw! Just using as an example.) It’s a book that contains false allegations of rape, racism, false imprisonment (of Boo Radley), possible incest, etc. … but it’s an amazing book precisely because amongst all that, we see a man stand up for what’s right, risking his reputation and even his own safety, and his children’s admiration for him, despite the difficulties his stance causes for them. If there was nothing bad in “Mockingbird,” it would be about a nice little town in Alabama where everyone treated each other nicely and fairly. The end. What a great read, lol!
Should we dwell on dark or bad or ugly things? No, I absolutely don’t think we should. But I think avoiding anything that mentions their very existence is not only nearly impossible but not to our benefit.
October 26, 2010 at 2:10 am
my3boys
Participant
I don’t have too much time to chime in, but I thought I would just add my experience with this topic, so far.
My boys are 11, 8 and 4. We were given the Narnia series in talking book form as a gift for Christmas last year. We started it some time after that while we drove around in the van. We thoroughly enjoyed them. I had already read The Magicians Nephew and The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe so it was interesting to listen to it. My oldest boy was the most interested (my 8 yo just listened to it because it was playing) and asked to listen to it and requested that everyone be quiet during that time. We just finished the last one about a month ago, or so. We were kind of sad when they were over because we have enjoyed the entertainment, familiarity, and discussion that it brought forth, not that it was a ton, but I like to read along with my kids as much as I can. So, we’re in the process of finding something else to listen to together. Didn’t experience any convictions, swaying of faith, obssessiveness in the occult (or anything else related to witchcraft, etc.)…we simply enjoyed a good story.
Now, as far as HP is concerned…I have only seen parts of those movies…I just can’t sit through them. They’re really just not anything I’m interested in…the glorifying of witchcraft does bother me, but really it’s just the bad acting, plot, and confusion I find in the storylines. Honestly, I just couldn’t stay awake the couple of times we’ve attempted to watch them. I’ve never read the books, but that’s really just because I am so not interested. With LOTR, kind of felt the same way, but I could manage a movie and quite possibly could a book, not sure.
Twilight bothers me more because of the obssessive love (or whatever you want to call it) and the lack of parental supervision. The love triangles, as if they’re adults, is just weird. Movies and tv shows do depict the young characters as single-handedly living in beautiful homes (all expenses paid) as if that is real life (in real families, not celebrity families) and parents are an afterthought. I do realize some kids are on their own (latchkey), but I’m really talking about most of the families I associate with. Anyway, I don’t like my kids to watch the obssessiveness, lack of respect toward adults, etc. that bothers me more than Scooby-Doo type stuff. Although, I always tell the kids to turn the tv when Wizard’s of Waverly Place comes on…such lack of respect toward the parents….in addition to the theme.
BTW, my kids have never expressed an over-interest in anything that I can think of. They watch, read, see, hear something, then it’s over. Not to say that it’s not in their minds somewhere, I’m just saying that they don’t dress-up, re-inact or draw pictures of anything. If they did or if I noticed an unhealthy attachment to those type of things I would probably pull the plug pronto. They have never asked to read Twilight, LOTR or HP (or even watch them), but if they did and I had to decide one way or another they would just say “Okay” to whatever our decision was and move on. I would explain why we didn’t want them to read/watch and as of today they’re pretty compliant in that area and trust our judgment.
I have to admit that I am a huge Star Wars fan…always have been. My kids have watched them off and on (no obssession) but we differ in our opinions of the last 3 that were made. I thought the last three lacked chemistry and humor… and I could not follow the storyline…of course my kids thought differently.
So I had more time than I thought…and wrote more than I intended. I guess I would have to say that a clear indicator is your own convictions from the Spirit. If you are struggling, then maybe God is speaking to you, so I would just skip those books. Sometimes I feel heavily convicted about one things and no convictions about another. My husband and I do not have the same convictions most of the time:) And, sometimes I just simply have an adversion to something…and that is where my decision come from. Or like Bookworm said, “It gives me the willies.” Or something like that.
Either way, I believe that you and your husband will prayfully decide what is best for your family and He will give you peace.
October 26, 2010 at 4:07 am
Rebekahy
Participant
Dear Linda – I agree – I don’t think any verse “trumps” another – should have put it in quotes the first time. That’s the sad part, is I don’t think I have any scriptural foundation for allowing my girls their princesses – is there a difference between imagination, pretend and witchcraft – I think so. I do think that some things can be pure and noble and right without being entirely realistic. Mary Poppins for example. I don’t think that’s witchcraft, I think that’s pretend and I think my girls can easily differenitiate. Now, the sea witch in the little mermaid, well, in terms of conjuring and witchiness – I think someone would be hardpressed to say that it’s pure and lovely and admirable.
Then you have Tortured for Christ by Richard Wumbrand (I think) – the story of a Christian pastor who spent years in jail being tortured because of his faith in Christ – is that pure or lovely or noble? Certainly not, but would Christ take exception to us reading it…I think again, you have a hard time making an argument against true stories of Christian Martyrs. So how do we know the difference?
I think that this would all be a lot simpler if I could just trust my gut, but again I’ve got scripture that warns against it… “There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.” Pro. 14: 12    “For my thoughts are not your thoughts… declares the Lord” Is. 55:8 “The heart is deceitful above all things” Jer. 17:9
I don’t know – for me that may still be room for Narnia because of the allegory (is that the right word?), but I think the disney magic has lost it’s leg to stand on.
October 26, 2010 at 1:20 pm
lakrueger
Member
Here are a couple links – one for information about Harry Potter and the other about Star Wars. I must say that we have watched Star Wars and our son has read a few of the books, but I was able to talk with him about the basis for the Force, how it correlates to false religions in our world, how the birth of Annikin was an insult to the birth of Messiah, etc.
http://www.watchman.org/na/starwarsbeware.htm
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/harrypotter.html
As for Narnia, we have the whole series of books and have read through them. What surprised me was the fact that they have been touted as Christian and a good tool for witnessing. Initially it wasn’t too bad even though there’s magic from the get-go. As we got further into the books I was amazed at how Lewis married Christian symbols with pagan, putting them on equal footing. I again used that as a teaching tool for our son to explain the Scripture states that Messiah is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and that noone can come to the Father unless it is through Him. We’ve not read through them again. Again, just my 2 cents’ worth.

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