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Chronicles of Narnia & Harry Potter
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I’m hoping this does not cause too much debate, but am in need of your insight.
We’ve read the Chronicles of Narnia series (as recommended literature here on SCM curriculum guide) to our children. We’ve enjoyed them immensly and saw the allegorical message throughout – though being leary of fantasy.
We’ve always stayed away from Harry Potter, not because I’ve had first hand experience with the books, but because I’ve heard they are heavily inundated with witchcraft/occult.
In homeschooling circles Narnia is said to be much more “safe”. My question then is why is one safe over the other if they both seemingly have witches and magic in them?
I ask this because my 15yo was having a debate with a friend at church thismorning about Harry Potter. My ds has never read the series and has only heard negatives. His friend was stating that Harry Potter is written by a Christian women, scripture is used throughout the books, with a good message, etc. This friend was encouraging the books….
You can imagine our conversation this afternoon…wanting to give an answer as to why we would read Narnia and not Mr. Potter.
Please do share your thoughts as to be respectful to differing opinions…I’m sure there will be many.
Thanks! ~ Heather
I just wanted to clarify -too late to edit. I didn’t mean to imply that anyone here would be disrespectful. I only know that a topic like this (whether our children should be allowed to read fairy tales, fantasy literature, magic,etc.) can become very heated. Forgive me if my last statement came out wrong, I honor all your opinions. I am looking forward to hearing your responses about the differences between Narnia and Harry Potter. Also why you would choose one over the other, why you would choose neither, or why you might choose both for your children to read? Thanks again.
Hi Heather,
I will start by saying that this is just my own opinion.
I actually read the Harry Potter books a couple of years ago as Dd was wanting to read them and I knew of some other Christians who were letting their Dcs read them. My Dh and I agreed that I should read them so that we could more effectively explain to Dd and others why we did not allow them.
As far as I know the author is not a Christian ( I may be wrong). I do not recall any use of scripture in the books. I also found that from book 3 onwards the content became more and more disturbing ( characters called Dementors can see into your soul are in this book ) and the last book was definately more adult in content.
The use of witchcraft aside , I particularly did not like the fact that Harry and his friends are constantly disobedient and and have the attitude that they know better than the adults and that the adults always ended up admitting that Harry had been right all along.
As for the quality of the story I found it rather ridiculous that there was always an imposter in every book.
Dd has not been allowed to read them and neither will Ds, we have also not allowed the films.
Overall I felt that it made witchcraft appear to be a cool thing to be involved in. It also concerns me that it has led to a very unhealthy interest in all things occult for many young people, my 13 yr old niece is obssessed with the Twilight series. Dd has already been told no to those.
I think your question is a good one – why are magic and magical items alright in Narnia but not at Hogwarts? I very much think that the Harry Potter books are within the literary tradition of fairy tale fantasy, like the Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings, they are not occult fantasy at all.
Here is a wikipedia entry about the debate that you all may find interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_debates_over_the_Harry_Potter_series#cite_note-bowyer-3
The friend that was arguing for religious content in the books may be referring to some of the claims from this article, which was cited in the wikepedia entry.
I think the author has some valid points regarding the difference in British and American reading public and their cultural knowledge of religious symbols – not that Americans are ignorant (which I think he implies) but that we have a different set of symbols that jump out at us when we read a story.
All that above is just the results of a bit of research. On a personal note, I will say that I enjoyed the Harry Potter books very much, just as I am now enjoying the Chronicles of Narnia very much in this reading as an adult – I am in the midst of Prince Caspian right now! I think Harry Potter is harmless, but I also think that if your children don’t read them, it is not the end of the world. There are a lot of other entertaining books to read.
I hope this isn’t too daring for this forum, but I can’t resist weighing in on the Twilight issue that was mentioned above, and the difference I think between Twilight and Harry Potter. Twilight is a fantasy that takes place in our own reality, so to speak, with characters that are unknown to us – these vampires and werewolves that are portrayed as almost rare wild animals that we never see. They however live in our own world and are thus concerned with the same issues we are. This comes through in the books – the vampires are very aware of God and heaven, of the soul and a creator, and some of them are tormented by the thought that they have “lost their soul” (of course not of their own volition). (Parents who read the first Twilight novel might be pleasantly surprised by its innocence and charm – I realize it is hard to take it seriously as a novel after all the silly media hype surrounding the movie, but if you are curious, don’t be afraid.)
The Harry Potter books (like the Narnia books and the Lord of the Rings books) take place in an alternate “universe” or a different reality. They are not thinking about the everyday issues that confront us – they are free to take the fantasy out to its end with no obligations but to the reality the author has set up.
We have just recently made the decision, as a family, to stay away from fantasy literature, movies, and video games that include magic/occult practices.
I personally see no difference in one reading about magic set in a “make-believe” world or the “real world”. Why would it be okay to do anything that is condemned in the Scriptures in a “make-believe” setting but not in real life?
We also have noticed the addictive nature of fantasy entertainment. Video game worlds or fantasy realms in literature can become so real to a person that they love to be in their game or book world, so they neglect the real world. At times they may become so addicted that they are irritable when they have to stop reading or playing. We have actually seen marriages end in divorce over these things.
It really boils down to the fact that we do not want our children to be so engrossed with fantasy that they neglect their real, spiritual lives on earth. Plus, we have to ask ourselves what Jesus would think about our entertainment choices. Would He read books, watch movies, or play video games that glorify a false religion that God has condemned?
Entertainment is optional! We think that we HAVE to have it, but we don’t. 😉 Thus, our family has decided to stay away from magical fantasy and find things that we know the Lord would approve of if we choose to be entertained.
Here are some scriptures that I have gone to about this subject:
I Peter 1:14-19
Phil. 4:8
Prov. 4:23
Prov. 23:7
Psalm 1
Rev. 21:8
Gal. 5:19
I don’t have much time to say anything, but I do have some concerns about some of these books, and I am VERY disturbed by the Twilight books–they are just pushing the envelope, as far as I am concerned. I read just one–as I only read one Harry Potter–but in that one, a teenage girl schemed and lied to her parents, let a young man (vampire young man, no less) sleep in her room at night without her parents’ knowledge, and tried to get said vampire to have sex with her, repeatedly. Of course it’s nice that a character with some morals said NO, but still, the books to me are very, very steamy, the exact opposite of innocent. THAT is what bothers me about those, not to mention the fact that they are twaddley writing (as is Harry Potter, IMO).
Harry Potter bothers me for some of the reasons cited by kcoard. Harry and his friends are openly disrespectful of others, plot revenge, etc. The characters that involve magic in Narnia, to me, feel like a child’s imagination of fairyland–very innocent. The thing that creeps me out the most about Harry Potter is the deliberate marketing toward “spell” kind of things–when the first movie came out, I was walking down a discount-store toy aisle, something I rarely do, and actually found a “Harry Potter Book of Spells” and chills went down my spine. Just IMO of course, but if it gives me the willies, we aren’t going to read it. 🙂 Narnia gives me warm fuzzies, not willies. May not seem like a terribly logical way to approach it, but it works for us.
Hi csmamma!
I just wanted to share my thoughts on how Literature influences our thoughts and convictions. I have read and exposed my children to some of the Narnia books, but totally abstain from any literature which glorifies evil. I try my best to follow the counsel in the Bible, because I am human and sometimes the heart can be misguided when left own its own. I Thessalonians 5:22 tells us as believers to “Abstain from the very appearance of evil.” As a young person I began checking books out of the library that were influenced by witches and occultic images. The Lord kept His hand on me and freed me from the confusion that I allowed to come into my mind by the literature I was reading. When I was reading them, I began to question my faith and even God’s existence. I believe great literature upholds the standards and morals of the Bible. Since God created young minds to absorb knowledge to be yielded into wisdom as they mature, I want my children’s minds absorbing writings that will cause them to think on those things that are “true, honorable, whatever is right, whatever pure, whatever lovely, whatever of good report; if of any virtue, and if of any praise, think on these things.” Phillipians 4:8. Whatever part we feed, our carnal man or spiritual man- is what will dominate in our walk in life. csmamma, I admire your thoughtfulness and concern you show over what you expose your family to. I believe you’ll continue to do what is best. Blessings to you and yours in Messiah. MelanieC.
“Just IMO of course, but if it gives me the willies, we aren’t going to read it. 🙂 Narnia gives me warm fuzzies, not willies. May not seem like a terribly logical way to approach it, but it works for us.”
I think it is the perfect way to approach it – I have felt that way about books/media also – I know exactly what you mean. Each of us has our own comfort zone. I encountered an assigned book in my daughter’s 4th grade class that pushed all my buttons – Swear to Howdy. I would never have exposed a 9yo to the themes and situations in this book. This kind of situation is why I use discretion – but my own discretion – to choose books and I read with my children.
If a family decides to avoid witchcraft, fantasy, and magic, well then of course Harry Potter won’t be a choice! But if the question is “why Narnia and not Harry Potter” I think that your answer – basically “because I just don’t like it” is as valid as any other. Trust your gut reaction. Mine is different, but the book isn’t important enough to be troubled over, I don’t think. If it isn’t read, it is not a loss. Perhaps it would be a loss to miss Narnia – maybe those books are more important in the development of modern literature. I think that could be argued.
Ladies, I just want to jump in and thank you all for your kindness in this thread. You are doing a wonderful job of graciously stating your positions, which is exactly what Heather asked for, yet without attacking others’ positions. I’m enjoying the tone of this discussion very much.
I too appreciate the tone of this discussion, it is lovely when it is like this and we all remember our differences. I can pretty much clarify one thing and that is that J K Rowling is not a Christian woman – I heard an interview where she discussed her views and they were not Christian. My daughters and I have read Narnia and Harry Potter – and seen the movies together as a family. I should stress the girls are now 18 and very mature. Interestingly they enjoyed Narnia very much more because the writing was so good, they liked HP as a quick leisure read, but they clearly stated they did not think it was especially well written. I read the first Twilight book and saw the movie with my husband (rented it) and as far as the book is concerned I thought it was not exceptional, and the film was ok but not anything that I would want to see again. I am concerned with Twilight that it hinges on very obsessive relationships as well as the obvious vampire thing. Obsessive love is not normal and not right – we discussed it with the girls, told them what it was about, and they had no interest in it at all, so that was easily solved. When they go back to any book of that genre to read again, it is always The Lord of The Rings which we all love and Narnia – HP got read once, and that was that – they donated their copies. I would not call HP Christian, just pure entertainment, and if you don’t like magic and the occult, then maybe it is not the best for you – I would not give it to them without reading it yourself. I actually agree with Gem, the simple answer is either you like something or you don’t and if you are uncomfortable in any way with it, then leave it and tell people if they ask, its just not your cup of tea (sorry that is what I would say,lol). I was actualy pleased that the girls were not overly enamoured with HP, they showed real discernment with that issue and Twilight, and I think that is a sign that at 18, they have some talent for deciding what is good and not so good. without us having to decide for them. I am certain that you will make the right decision based on your own family and that is how it should be. Blessings, Linda
Heather,
What I have to say is not so much full of wisdom as it is common sense. I have not read either Narnia or Harry Potter, although we are planning to read Narnia in a few years. All I know of Harry Potter is what I have seen advertised in movie trailers, and based on that, my children won’t be seeing the movies or reading the books any time soon, for sure.
Having said that, my dcs are little–6.5 and 5. I don’t believe their reading abilities or comprehension is at the level of Narnia or HP at present. I really admire what Linda had to say about her 18yo girls reading both and choosing on their own what was well-written and what wasn’t. As of today and since my children are so young, I don’t want to put anything into their innocent minds that might cause them to doubt or question our Christian faith for a minute. But I also cannot say that I’ll never, ever, ever allow them to read Harry Potter. There comes a time when we have to have confidence in what we have taught our children, that they have chosen the ways of the Lord for themselves (and not us choosing for them), and then allow them to explore and form their own judgments and opinions about literature and such. If Linda and her dh had not done such an amazing job of teaching their daughters the truth, the girls wouldn’t have been so prepared to spot the lies.
We have a very good friend who works at a bank. When he was training for his position, he handled thousands of real bills, from 20s on up. His trainers didn’t show him counterfeit bills; instead they made him familiar with the real thing. So now, if he happens to receive a counterfeit bill, he automatically recognizes the difference because it’s not the real thing he’s so familiar with. The same is true for our faith and beliefs. If we raise our children on Truth, rather than pointing out lies and false truths every time we have a chance, then they will be able to easily recognize a lie when they encounter one, be it through entertainment, literature, or in a social situation. They have to be old enough to bear the weight of the lie, which is why we shelter them early on and gradually allow them more freedom, exposure, etc.
In my very inexperienced opinion on this particular subject, I would say that what you allow your children to read depends just as much on your own personal beliefs as it does on their ages. Only you know each child’s level of maturity, so only you can say what is and is not appropriate or allowed.
Reading books of this type, especially if you’re reading them together (like separately, but then coming together for a discussion) can give you great opportunities for conversation, discussing likes and dislikes, comparing the events in the books to Scripture, discerning fantasy from reality, and so on.
Remember, this is coming from someone who has yet to read either series, but I always like to feel prepared for when my children are older.
Blessings,
Lindsey
I have only read one of the Harry Potter books and none of the Twilight books. We have watched Harry Potter here, and while I enjoy them to a point, they have come to disturb me because of how *dark* they seem. That may seem like an odd statement considering the genre, but the atmosphere of the books/ movies seems bereft of the ability to breath in hope, so to speak. They seem aimless, to a point – knowing there must be a way to defeat the evil, but how can it be done… no where to turn, total overwhelming sense of evil pressing in and an almost accidental way of working things out.
Having said that, we have made a point to discuss what we see in depth, to draw conclusions from the story as presented, which has led to some insightful discussions with our teens after viewing them. Nevertheless, these are definitely of the mind-candy variety IMHO.
As far as Narnia goes, there is more depth there with an underlying current of hope – that there is a way that is not accidental to defeat the evil that pervades the world of Narnia. There are deep meanings deliberately written into the text that HP lacks. Because of this depth, these are classics and used as such in our family. The same with LOTR. These have never failed to leave me with a deep sense of hope and new insights into familiar Biblical principles. Understand that I am not implying that the Bible needs to be interpretted, but rather that these two series deliberately point us toward the Bible and toward Christ. In the end, for our family, that is the test we use to determine whether it is good, useful, and desired.
My 2 cents,
jacqleene/ blue j
I hope this does not come out wrong or is insulting to anyone. I just want to mention an article I read and just throw this out there for thought.
I read an article in a catholic magazine on just this subject. Should we alow our children to read Harry Potter? The article basically said that if a child is well read in good literature, they should see the books as what they are, an entertaining read, but not much more. Its the children that are allowed to read twaddle all day, every day that have a tendancy to get obsesive. It aslo mentioned the overtly magical tone. Bye this I mean having to use a wand and their clothing and such. Its just so unrealistic and fake.
So that is basically what I took from the article. I cannot attest to the claim about children reading good books and reacting properly, but I can say that’s how it was with me. I read it first before I had really gotten into CM and thought it was pretty good. After I got more into CM, I started ready more classic, good literature and was really enjoying it. A while latter I went back and read HP, and couldn’t figure out what I thought was so good. It is mindless entertainment. It had a some what decent plot line, but the wrighting style just left so much wanting.
So my thoughts for my family are when they are teenagers (16-17) they can read them if they want to. I think the other thing is to know your child. If my child shows a strong desire to act out every thing they read and is strongly affected by literature, I may change my mind.
I also wanted to comment on the Twighlight books. THEY ARE HORRIBLE. (just my opinion) I agree with Linda about the obsessive relationships. That was the biggest thing that disturbed me. Expesially since these were aimed at younger teenage girls. The character developement (if you can call it that) was just as bad. I think the fact that they are more realistic by being in this world are the reason they are more dangerous. My mind is exploding with how bad these are and I can’t think now.
Back on track. Obviosly if you, as the parent, are not comfortable with your children reading it, then its your right to say no. I would be interested in hearing if any of the parents of older children have experiance what was mentioned in the article, of being more decerning with a diet of really good literature.
Again, no bad intetions ment here. I just respectfully disagree with some of the comments on certain issues. I just wanted to add my opinion and mention the article and perhaps maybe add some more food for thought.
ruth
I’v come back to edit this because I’m worried someone might take what I have said wrong. I just want to stress that these are my opionions and feelings. I am very passionatly against the twighlight series and I think it shows. I don’t mean any disrespect to those who may enjoy it. I think they cause such a passionate dislike because if I had read them earlier before I was safe in the folds of Christs robe, I would have been greatly afected in a negative way by them. I thank Him above for not letting them affect me in that manner now, but I get a sick in my stumach feeling just thinking about them, because I know how bad they could be for me. So again, in regards to what you enjoy reading, to each his own, but for me I cannot think of these books without a shudder. And I worry that othet young girls my be greatly affected by them in a negative way.
I sincerly hope no one is offended by this.
ruth
I just wanted to let you all know that I’m checking in and reading the responses, which are greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts. I hope this discussion continues. I’ll respond later, when time allows. You are all valued and wonderful mothers!
As I said before, now that the girls are 18 I am seeing them independently choosing and discerning what is wholesome and good and what is not. It is gratifying to see that they feel in charge of some of their lives as young adults, and can go against the teen norm and reject things like Twilight and all the recent glut of vampire type movies and books. They use Plugged In online to check on movies and things and then decide whether it is something they want to read/see and so far they have made excellent choices. They have made it clear they only want to see PG13 movies and won’t consider anything over that, and sometimes they reject a PG13 because some of those are now becoming over violent and sexualised. They rarely watch TV unless it is a documentary or something on Animal Planet or History Channel. When they see Nat Geo specials that have the evolutionary bent, they just say, oh there is that evolution nonsense again – so they are capable of watching the documentary and learning things from it, but their creationist science lessons also has helped them to discern the facts from the fiction. As they are now young adults and able to vote in a few weeks, my husband and I are allowing them choices in things but we discuss just about everything – it is a scary time for us as parents, but so far we are pleased to see that they have far more common sense than I had at their age lol. We are in some ways fortunate that we will still have the girls finishing school for another year – because they missed a year because of a hurricane and also because of the serious illness one daughter has had for the past year, which has meant lots of missed school. We are comfortable giving them the extra time to finish and feel they deserve to have the same chance as other high school students. Both girls have said they would like to do college at home, or at least some college at home – so we will be able to see more of how the homeschool years have given them the tools they need for adult life. There is a new Harry Potter movie coming out and it is the final one (thank goodness) and I asked them if they wanted to see it, they said they might, but they were looking forward to the Narnia move more and also Secretariat – so that was good. If they want to see the last HP movie, that is fine, they are very capable of seeing it and not being swayed into the wrong way of thinking. I have heard this final movie is a little darker, so we will check and see what the reviews are like and maybe I will go as well – they are still happy to be seen with their old mum. If they read that it is far more violent then I know they will choose themselves not to go. I am comfortable now that the girls have good skills and good heads on their shoulders. They have always walked to a different drummer and never wanted to be part of the pack, so that helps as well. As Ruth said, you have to know your child and discern what they are capable of handling and certain things are certainly better left until they are much older. Heather, I know from your posts that yours is an extremely thoughtful family, so I also know that you will make the right decision. I have to say that some Disney films are not especially wholesome these days either, everybody seems to be pushing the envelope in decency – and years ago Disney also had Mickey in the Scorceror’s Apprentice with the magic broom – so magic has been around a long time. My daughter’s favorite author’s are people like Jane Austen, Louisa May Alcott and Charlotte Bronte, they also love Tolkein and C S Lewis, those books are usually the ones they are reading in their leisure reading, and I am happy about that. So my best advice would be know your own limits on things, and above all else know your children. Sooner or later they are adults and can then read what they want – it is good perhaps to guide them gently through the years so that they at 18 and above they can handle what comes their way. Good luck.
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