Name: Spreading the Feast Gathering
Start: 2025-07-11T00:00:00-05:00
End: 2025-07-12T23:59:59-05:00
Location: LaGrange, KY

Tagged: 7th grade, art of argument, fallacy detective, high school, Logic, Reason

This topic has 13 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 9 months ago by schoolcanbefun.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)

Author
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July 23, 2013 at 6:39 pm
4myboys
Participant
I am looking for something for my ds going into 7th. I’ve read that the Art of Argument is better than the other, but wonder if they are so similar that there is no point in doing both? For example would doing Fallacy Detective in 7th, Thinking Tool Box in 8th then Art of Argument in 9th be redundant? If so, would I be better off going with Art of Argument now or waiting for high school? If I wait until high school, can anyone recommend something they like for critical thinking at this stage? Also, does the Fallacy Detective and Thinking Tool box need a Teacher’s guide?
July 23, 2013 at 8:03 pm
missceegee
Participant
Take my thoughts with a grain of salt since we are doing this next year and it’s new, but…
We planned to use AoA for a co-op class of 7th-10th graders. Bought it and decided it might be a bit much and decided to save it for when the majority of the kids are 9th+. We are opting to use Fallacy Detective as the basis for our 1 term class as a more gentle introduction.
July 23, 2013 at 8:51 pm
momto2blessings
Participant
Take w/a grain, too (just starting)….but your plan is exactly like mine. Fallacy Detective in 7th, Thinking Toolbox in 8th, Art of Argument in 9th. We just did Fallacy Detective last year and I didn’t need a teacher’s manual. I’m not too concerned about redundancy because I also want to include my soon to be 5th grader and that worked well last year. We just read one chapter a week so it wasn’t a big time commitment. Blessings, Gina
July 23, 2013 at 9:49 pm
Rachel White
Participant
I decided to just jump into AoA with my son (to be 13) based on reading as many reviews and experiences as I could find both on this forum and at WTMforum, as well as other statements by Martin Cothran. Thankfully, I got the student book and TG for $20 at a local used book store – yay!
I wish I could tell you exactly my mind set regarding my choice, other than I have a certain scope and sequence.
AoF – 7th
Argument Builder – 8th
Traditional Logic 1 and Socrates Meets Jesus (recommended by Cothran here)- 9th
Traditional Logic 2 – 10th
Material Logic – 11th
Classical Rhetoric – 12th
If CAP brings out a second book to come after Discovery of Deduction, then I may go in that direction with those two books, so we’ll wait and see if they CAP does.
I want to fit in Logic by Isaac Watts to be read and narrated/studied and I am looking for Jewish materials that deal with Aristotlean thought (like Maimonides) to go alongside as well. Also, C.S. Lewis and Abraham Joshua Heschel will make it in there, too.
Here’s an article about Aristotle in Jewish Lit. for those interested: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1775-aristotle-in-jewish-literature
July 24, 2013 at 2:02 pm
4myboys
Participant
Hmmm…I don’t really plan to go the traditional logic route, and I’m not so concerned about high school credits. I am looking for something that will challenge his thinking/reasoning skills. He seems to have an allergy to using his brain. (Product of 5 years of PS?) Some humour in the mix would be a big help.
July 24, 2013 at 2:05 pm
missceegee
Participant
I forgot to add that dd12 and I will begin going SLOWLY through Mortimer Adler’s How to Read a Book for logic this coming year, too. I bought the audio book so we can both listen and do something like sewing at the same time.
July 24, 2013 at 2:06 pm
Rachel White
Participant
Then I think Fallacy Det. and The Thinking Toolbox is a great place to start for ya’ll! Then you can determine whether to continue with other things.
Christie, I’m planning on that one,too; in the 2014/15 year. Thanks for reminding me. I didn’t know it was on audio.
July 24, 2013 at 7:05 pm
csmamma
Participant
I second Rachel’s suggestion, to start with Fallacy Detective & Thinking Toolbox. My boys absolutely loved these in 7th & 8th grade. They learned so much!! Also, the authors have their accompanying DVD “Logic in 100 minutes”, which was great for my visual learner. Blessings!
August 19, 2013 at 4:15 pm
Lisa TX
Member
I’m soooo struggling with this decision, and I should have made this decision at least a week ago!
Here is my scenario:
We have a once-per-week co-op. We have our electives on a rotation, and Formal Logic is our newest addition — and will be in our permanent rotation we hope. We are doing an isolated year — not part of a series. We think exposure beats nothing. We have 25 weeks to work with and planned to do Cothran’s Traditional Logic after 10 weeks or so of something more enjoyable to whet the appetite like Fallacy Detective or Art of Argument. The teacher is VERY smart (our family doctor), but has no background and would like to just learn alongside the kids using his prep period to get ready for the next week.
Soooo, we want the fall (Fallacy Detective or Art of Argument) to be like getting in the shallow end for fun and for getting ready for the deeper end. This will be 9th-11th graders. We want it to be challenging, but expect the high school credit to come primarily from the latter 15 weeks of Traditional Logic.
HELP!!! I am so behind on this decision. Fallacy Detective sound fun and seems to provoke easy and fun discussions! I want that but I want it to be age appropriate!

August 19, 2013 at 4:29 pm
Rachel White
Participant
I think FD would be too juvenile for the age group. AoA would be better, IMO.
August 19, 2013 at 4:39 pm
jeaninpa
Participant
Agreeing with Rachel even though I haven’t actually used either one, but based on my research. Art of Argument comes with a dvd. I think it’s a 20 minute lesson introduction. That might make prep time and teaching easier. I’m in the middle of this decision right now and I’m leaning strongly towards Art of Argument, but am waiting to see what ages will be included since this will be for a coop class as well.
August 19, 2013 at 6:11 pm
Lisa TX
Member
Can Art of Argument be done well enough in 10 weeks? I’m concerned about parents getting their money’s worth. They’ll then have to purchase the Traditional Logic book for the spring (15 weeks).

August 19, 2013 at 6:48 pm
TailorMade
Participant
FWIW, some of my kids that have graduated read the FD @ 10 years old. Did fine with it.
August 19, 2013 at 10:32 pm
schoolcanbefun
Member
4myboys,
If you are thinking more along the lines of critical thinking than logic, I would recommend Stossel in the Classroom. It is a free download or DVD that gives a short video clip (~5-8 mins) of a government program or law and some “unintended consequences” that result. It definitely gets them thinking and is a great opportunity to teach kids to back up what they say and/or have an opinion to share. Great discussion. Study guide with vocab, additional discussion questions, additional research and projects available online for free too.
The DVD is intended for advanced middle schoolers (basically kids who have been encouraged to think things through) and high schoolers.
We also just did FD and The Thinking Toolbox this past year as an intro to logic elective with MFW. it was fun and light and we had some good discussions.