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Does skip counting mess them up?
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Has anyone else had this experience? My son learned the little songs our first year hsing when we did Classical Conversations. Now he is doing MUS Gamma but is still gazing into the sky skip counting when asked a problem. I have him doing Xtra Math along with Tables, Squares and Cubes from CC (currently the 5 pattern) to hopefully help him get them down pat. I like that CC takes them through the 15 pattern although we are not doing that program. I have no memory of singing songs to learn multiplication tables as a child–mainly I remember speed drills. I’m just wondering if anyone else thinks the skip counting concept delays them. I’m open to suggestions.
I would not say it messes them up, but I think for some it does not help and can cause a “slow down” in problem solving.
I have 2 friends who did CC and focused on skip counting memorization and now kids getting older are struggling because they have to go through songs to answer problems. Both families have had to back track and start working on just memorizing for exmple the times tables. My one friend said she is not going to do much skip counting for her youngeat past things like 5, 10, 25 because her older kids are having a harder time.
My kids learn to skip count but not really for use in solving problems. I never learned to skip count either growing up, just learned the math
I think it may be the song that is the problem. Whenever you learn something in a song it is stored differently in your brain. You can only retrieve the song, not the individual components of the song. Like the alphabet song, how many people sing the song when they have to alphabetize. I do. I never learned the alphabet properly. Music is processed and stored differently than words and numbers. There are even stroke victims who have lost their ability to speak, but can still sing. So songs are nice ways to remember for sure, but we need to also learn the facts seperate from a song. Otherwise we have only memorized a song, we havent memorized any math. At least that is what I have read. I am no expert, but it seems to ring true.
I might agree. (*L*) I don’t really know. My 2nd dd is dyslexic – so for her, memorizing “random” things like multiplication tables is so hard. (Multiplication feels random to her – just because that’s how she is.) So, for her benefit, I started singing the 3s, 4s, 6s, 7s, 8s, and 9s. (The 5s and 10s she can do on her own.) One thing I make us do is put up the proper fingers while we’re singing. And she actually touches her fingers to sing the songs. It works. It takes a long time to do her math work this way, but at least she has a technique to help with math.
My other daughters don’t seem to need the songs. My oldest dd didn’t memorize the times tables until lately (she’s in 7th grade) – and she still every once in a while asks what x * y is. My 3rd dd just seems to “get” math, so the songs haven’t helped or hurt her. My 4th dd (only in 2nd grade) can now sing the 12s (??? Even I need the cheat sheet to sing the 12s – or else time to do the math in my head!! *L*). I can’t tell if it’s helping or hurting or neutral.
I didnt mean to sound like I was against songs for memorizing. We learn songs for lots of things. For math in particular I like them to be able to get the answer a number of ways, including a song if necessary. We use finger tricks and other cheats as well. How often do we just blank on a mult fact even as adults. Its good to be able to get the answer from multiple angles for those times when we just cannot remember 7×8 (my personal nemesis).
I appreciate the thoughts here. MUS encourages skip counting but I’m not sure as to when the kids should transition to straight up knowing them like the back of their hands. Funny about 7×8 being your personal nemesis, Crystal. 🙂 The hard ones for me are actually addition facts like 8+6. It makes me realize the importance of solidifying addition and subtraction facts as well.
Lol! I was just telling my son that I have trouble recalling a couple of addition facts!
My youngest (8) is dyslexic and I was given suggestions from HSLDA to use whatever means is available to use as tools…songs, games, a calculator, mneumonics, etc. I was just watching video on Right Start Math’s website that counting has so many downsides to it, then I came here and read on another thread that counting is foundational; that RSM doesn’t really line up with CM math philosophy. It can be so confusing to sort through it all, especially with a child who doesn’t learn in the middle of the road. So grateful that we have the Lord to help guide us and to give grace! And grateful not to be penned in by schools dictating what we use. I can keep trying till we find what clicks for him!
I’m gonna play the bad guy here but we have 7 kids and some “get it” and some just don’t when it comes to memorizing those times tables / division tables so if they haven’t caught on after one year… they get to use filled in multiplication chart from then on.
We were a little astonished when our eldest 3 kids came.back from local high school (we only homeschool k-9) and told me they’ve never remembered their times tables since the school actually requires them to use a calculator for everything. So we just decided that if it is not sinking in after trying to memorize after a while…. I’d rather them stay confident in the subject of math as a whole by just alllowing them to use the filled in grid.
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