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Disorderly Kids with Company – help!!
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We just said goodbye to some friends, and I am left with a frustration that seems to happen whenever we have company lately: WILD boys! At home and during our daily routine, my kids are generally a well-ordered bunch, but it seems like the minute someone walks in the door or we go to someone else’s house to play they become these insane, rude, whiney, innappropriate behaving people! It is so bad that I don’t want to have people over any more – and my husband and I really feel called to hospitality. Some examples of the behavior today:
1. 10 year old kicking his brother in the head and telling him it was okay b/c
“his brain was made of rubber”
2. 10 year old rough housing with 8 year old and causing a bloody nose (from a collision)
3. 7 year old whining for cookies and cocoa and then complaining loudly when told ‘no’
4. 8 year old repeatedly interrupting adult conversation to whine about brothers
5. 4 year old sneaking into kitchen and stealing cookies ( I think he got about 5 in before he was busted)
They have also been known to throw things, beat on their sisters door or take things from her room, etc…
Feel that I should also point out that we are on week 7 of my husband working out of town – he is home one day per week right now. That ends at Christmas, praise the Lord! But I know that I am weary and haven’t been good about disciplining the little things lately.
Just to be clear – I understand some excitement over company, but my kids aren’t just excited – they are BONKERS! We talk about this in advance, and discipline them afterwards but it doesn’t seem to have any effect…and naturally I am hesitant to stop everything and send them all to thier room (even if I could)while friends are here.
I feel I should also point out that my boys have had behavior problems in class settings and at the park, as well. Basically, any time Mom isn’t available to correct them, they are going to misbehave. I feel terrible, b/c it seems like whatever I am trying to teach them on a daily basis goes right out the window when they are on their own…and that isn’t a good sign, is it?
I love my boys so much, but this behavior and their arguments are truly making me so sad right now. If you have had any success or have any advice in overcoming issues like these, please pass it on! Otherwise we are going on ‘lock down’ for a while…and I’m not sure that will solve the problem!
My advice….
Schedule some visits by a really good friend that knows ahead of time what you are going to do – start the visit, and then do full discipline (interrupting the visit) as needed.
I think the kids know that you are afraid to discipline when others are around, and are taking advantage of it.
(btw – one time, when my mom was visiting from out of town – on the car ride to drop her off at the airport, the girls were going nuts in the car. I told them that if they kept it up, they would NOT be going in the airport to say goodbye but would be in the car with dad. We arrived at the airport, and they really were upset when I wouldn’t let them go in. (Dad tried to talk me out of it… grrrr.) I let them get out of the car for hugs, then they went back in the car. (to be fair, Dad probably had to listen to crying while I took her in). My son and I went in to the airport, took her to the security gate, said our goodbyes, and went back to the car. My mom phoned later and said that she agreed with me, was proud that I followed through, even with my dh saying to let them go in, and that they will probably remember it a long time….)
hth some
This is said in total love, so please hear it that way: Discipline is essential all the time. It sounds like the kids know you’ll not discipline when others are around so they know they can get away with just about anything. Apologize to the kids for your lack of consistency and let them know it stops now. You will discipline from here on out.
The absolute first thing is the physical violence. Totally unacceptible in any form at any time. I’ve got 5 boys. There is no hitting, kicking, wrestling, rough housing allowed in our home outside of daddy-led, specific, recreational times to physically play/wrestle(and then there are rules for respecting others, especially those younger/smaller/weaker than you). Yes, boys need to move and do physical things, but it does not ever have to be roughhousing and hurting others. Have and enforce other outlets for their need to move and use their bodies. (Drills that resemble army PT are a great place to start – challenge them to track their best time or most sit ups or push ups and strive to beat their best.) The 10 year old you describe sounds like a bully. He’s using his size/strength against his siblings and getting away with it. It is absolutely never acceptible to hurt another child of God. If that one thing is eliminated you probably would not have had the 8yo interrupting to tattle nearly as much.
Whining is also sometimes evidence of a child who is being ignored. Speaking from experience here. If you are putting them off when they ask a polite, specific question with answers like “I don’t know.” “Maybe later” and “Not right now” you’re going to get some children who keep asking over and over and over (whining!)until you give a specific answer. “No you may not do that today.” “Yes, you may get out the playdoh right after dinner is cleaned up” “We will be eating cookies with daddy tonight after scripture study.” Give them a specific answer and stick to it. Then deal with subsequent whining. More on that next!
For the whining regarding food (when you said no to 7yo) we deal with whining in one specific and always firm way – The whining is never rewarded and the whiner goes to their bed. Anything they were whining for they automatically may not have for the rest of the day. if whining persists then additional days are added. They go to the bed because, we tell them, the only thing that wants to hear you whine is your pillow. LOL. Whining outside the home mandates heading to the car or another separate place with an adult to supervise (while ignoring the child’s antics by reading a book).
Sneaking food – yeah, we’ve had that before too. They lose out on treats/desserts/anything sweet for the rest of that day and the next. meanwhile we make sure to bake something yummy for them to miss out on. You do have to be aware with this of setting a double standard in two ways. 1. Do you sneak a cookie when they’re cooling or sitting in the bowl? Then the child is likely following your example. 2. Do you allow children free access to the kitchen to grab food/snacks regularly? Then at that age it’s hard to differentiate between grabbing a cookie and grabbing an apple or pretzels. (We have a no kitchen access policy. Food is available at specific times and then the kitchen is closed for children AND adults. Nobody just wanders in to grab a snack when they feel like it. We have snack times set already too.)
{{HUGS}}
Parenting is not easy! Ever! Even when you do everything the best you can they will still make bad choices sometimes, just like we do. I think one of the most humbling parts of parenting for me is not letting my selfish pride in how others perceive my children’s behavior or my discipline to cause me to get frustrated with my young, still learning, and every bit as imperfect as their mother children.
Great advice so far. Tristan, you have a housefull (Plus you have boys which I don’t) so your approach sounds so perfect! And I totally agree with suzukimom about her approach.. .I’ve done the same thing and it’s amazing how when you set a consequence and stick to it (even though it is so hard, like what suzukimom described), they actually learn a lesson and “get it”! Hallelujah!
My girls are always dragging their feet, taking so long to get out the door, wherever we are going. We’re always late, ugh! So I put a timer near the door and deliberatley picked a few errands to run that they would enjoy, but that were not essential to do that day. I set the timer and told them if they were not ready and in the car by the time the timer went off, we weren’t going. I gave them 15 minutes, and they were not even close to ready (gotta get the dolls, doll clothes, bags, shoes, hats, coats… it never ends), so I announced, “Nevermind. We’re not going.” They were crushed, but you should have seen how fast they got ready the next morning! 🙂
I’ve done this in the supermarket to ward off whining or asking for things and then getting upset or louder or more obnoxious when I say NO. Several times with each girl at about 4 or 5 years old, I “pretend shop” putting in about 20 minutes worth of tossing stuff in the cart (non-fridge items exclusively). I make sure to describe the behavior I expect while we are still in the car, emphasizing that we will leave if there is bad behavior. Once in the store, I wait until they ask for something. I calmly and nicely say ‘no’, and give a reason. If they whine or complain, I leave the cart right where it is (that’s why no cooler items) and we walk out. Only takes once or twice before they get it.
Same thing on the phone. Somehow kids don’t think you’ll hang up on someone to deal with their behavior. Email or talk to a friend to set up a situation where you do just that. Wait for their misdeeds, then say loudly, “Jenni, I’m so embarrased to have to hang up on you, but I have to deal with my children’s behavior. Good bye.” You’ll have great behavior next time you’re on the phone. I do this with my mom several times a year to serve as a reminder, and it really works.
I’m workin gon getting my oldest dd8 to stop interrupting me while I am tlaking at church or wherever. I’m thinking I’ll try this approach soon.
HTH – let us know…
Thank you so much, Ladies. Really good advice! I am definitely taking your points about follow through. And I need to ‘get over’ my pride and discipline my kids in front of other people. Their character is more important than any unpleasantness it may cause.
We have good guidelines as far as the kids not allowed to get food (except at certain times and with permission) and accepting a ‘no’ without arguing or whining. They literally don’t even try these things UNLESS we have people over – then it is total disobedience! I know it is probably prideful to say, but it honestly makes me sad for them, b/c it isn’t an accurate picture of who they are normally. We are new to this town, and I do feel that this behavior will keep them from making friends… *sigh*. And I worry that if this is how they react when my eye isn’t ‘on’ them, then who will they become when they grow up and leave our home?
I had a talk with 10ds and we are stopping the rough play and hitting (unless Daddy is supervising wrestling) from here on out. He is very competitive and also has trouble with talking down to his brothers. Basically, it is a pride issue and a lack of respect for other people. He does love the Lord, though, and is genuinely repentant. But every day we get up and it seems like the cycle starts all over again.
So here is my follow up question: how to you get to the heart of an issue like this? Other than prayer and scripture :0)? In other words, how do I nip disrespectful talking in the bud and foster friendship among these boys? It seems like now they are constantly competing (and not in a good way!).
I will be following this thread with great interest. My kids have this problem too and I know that it’s really my own lack of consistency in company/public/phone situations that is getting in the way.
Well there are several books you might look into for getting to the heart of the behavior. Tedd Tripp books and Don’t Make Me Count to Three! There’s also one I just started, Say Goodbye to Whining, Complaining, and Bad Attitudes in You and Your Kids. This one has weekly family meetings about honor in the appendix.
My dh and I work together on the children’s behavior when we have company. While one of us continues to serve the meal, converse, etc. the other quietly takes the child out of the room to address the child’s behavior before things get worse. If he is not here, I just excuse myself and go take care of things. The child’s unchecked and escalating behavior makes guests more uncomfortable than me leaving the room for a few minutes. We are still working on behavior in public places like the grocery store! Argh! The library used to be where they would really misbehave. So we did what Jenni described and just left! I only had to do that twice before they straightened up! I’ve never thought to do that with the grocery store. My dc would probably be only too happy to leave there – even without groceries!
Lots of great advice.
@jenni, THANK YOU for the phone scenario. I am totally going to use this very soon. My kids will even RUDELY interrupt me on the phone. I am not one to talk on the phone much at all. I really don’t. But if I’m on there, PLEASE don’t just come up and start talking. Even our 2YO gets this, and she isn’t really the offender. It is our older boys. I need to get my Mom and MIL to help me use this method you’ve used. I’m going to mention it to my sister as well in case I need to use it while talking with her.
We have had 2 embarassing scenarios in our family regarding company, so I’ll tell my stories.
First, my very good friend and her 2 children were over for a playdate one afternoon, and my dd7 was VERY rude to both of her children (ages 3 and 5). My dd had to promptly apologize for her behavior toward the other children and then I sent her to my room, where she had to stay until our company left. She laid in my bed and cried and cried, but I made sure to tell my friend that she did not feel that she needed to leave sooner than we had originally planned so I could deal with my dd. So my ds and his friends continued to play while my friend and I continued to chat and drink our tea in the living room, all the while leaving dd in my bed alone. I half expected to find her sleeping by the time my friend and her children left, but she was still laying in my bed and crying. Without even having to explain to her, my dd automatically knew why she’d been separated from the others, and we have never had a problem with her being rude to company again. It was tough for me to follow through with, but that one time was enough to change her behavior right away.
Secondly, we were at another family’s home for a homeschooler’s Valentine’s party, and my ds was very rude to some of the girls who were there. He thought that all the boys should get to play separately from the girls and therefore made his point by slamming the door in our dd’s face to keep her out of their game. Of course, this was unacceptable behavior whether we were at home or at a friend’s home. So, I pulled him away from all the other kids, sat him on the couch next to me where I was visiting with all the other moms, and he had to stay there until it was time for us to go home. He missed out on playing and still had to look on, embarassed, while the other children got to have a good time. As with the other situation, this has never happened again.
So I say all that to make the point that you have to take action, even if that means completely isolating your misbehaving, disobedient, disrespectful children from the rest of the people around. I had to tell dd, “It’s too bad you were so rude to your friends and now you aren’t going to be allowed back out to play because that’s not how we treat people we have in our home. I hope you’ll remember how you feel right now the next time you think it’s a good idea to treat someone rudely.”
As for the sneaking food, we don’t have a “closed kitchen” rule in our home, but our children must ask before having any snacks. I make three meals a day plus one snack, so I give them plenty of opportunities to eat. We don’t buy any pre-made, boxed, frozen, or bagged snacks, so pretty much everything we snack on (unless it’s a piece of fruit or raw carrots) has to be prepared in some way–whether popping popcorn on the stove, scooping and flavoring plain yogurt, boiling eggs, etc. That makes it a lot more difficult to just walk in the kitchen and “grab” anything–because it takes effort, if that makes sense. If anyone is hungry outside of those eating times, I don’t keep them from food, but instead offer food to both kids. One may refuse while the hungry one gets an extra snack, but at least I’m not giving one child food without making some available to the other one too. Dh and I are welcome to snacks/food anytime we want because it’s our home and we buy and prepare the food. We never have to sneak food and hide it from our kids, so I don’t believe we set a bad example, but we frequently eat our own snacks after they’ve gone to bed. Our kids know this and don’t mind. Oh, but I do keep my own stash of chocolate in my nightstand drawer and do so unashamedly.
Like Tristan said, your children have figured out that you won’t discipline them in the presence of others, and you need to change this. Even if you’re embarassed by their behavior in front of others, that’s a lot better than allowing the behavior to repeat itself over and over while your children are forming bad habits. Nip it in the bud right from the beginning, and they’ll soon get the hint that you’re done putting up with their antics. And others’ children will probably notice how serious you are about misbehavior and won’t try anything crazy either while they’re in your home.
After the incident with dd I mentioned above, I did make her write a letter to my friend and her children, apologizing for her rudeness and asking their forgiveness. I then called my friend to ask her and her children to come back so that dd could practice being a good hostess to her guests. Gladly, they did and dd was an absolute angel, kind and sharing, and I believe, righted her wrong.
As for your boys’ roughousing and fighting, I think you could easily redirect that energy to running outside, doing some physical exercise inside, or giving them some rigorous chores. We have one girl and one boy, so they don’t roughouse with each other much, but we have had occasions where ds has accidentally hurt dd because he’s just a rough boy. We try to keep wrestling between Dad and ds, although dd loves to join in and frequently does. If you’ve told your boys to stop wrestling/arguing/hurting each other and they still disobey, I’d probably invoke some corporal punishment (if this is something you practice) and then separate them to do physical labor away from each other–re-stacking the wood pile, picking up rocks in the yard/driveway, sweeping the porch, washing windows, scrubbing floors or baseboards, scrubbing tile grout with a toothbrush, etc. If it’s energy they need to burn, that’s a lot better than hurting one another simply because they’re disobeying you.
I hope you get it all figured out!
Lindsey
I wonder how you all handle your children when you are visiting family and friends who have much, much less discipline (are generally less strict or restrictive in terms of behaviors) and want the children present to enjoy themselves in ways that do not follow your own philiosophy.
(I am not talking about anything violent, destructive or anything that results in anyone being hurt in any way.)
Claire, I have a policy of “The more strict rule prevails.” If our family rule is more strict, we use it. If the familiy we visit has a more strict rule, we use theirs. ie. We do not allow our kids to stand on or sit on arms of sofas & chairs. We have friends who do not care if kids stand on or sit on theirs that way. Our rule prevails.
ServingwithJoy, as the Momma of 4 boys, 2 of whom are rough and tough by nature and competitive by nature and 2 of whom are not, I get that! I really do. I think you have gotten great advice, but I do think you have to also think of boys like you see bear cubs or tiger cubs in nature. Some of this is by God’s design in my opinion. Boys are to grow into men who are protectors and providers, and in nature that means fending for one’s territory too.
While we don’t allow anyone to hurt another, sometimes it happens by accident. For instance, our youngest son is 7, and he will someimtes initatiate rough play (not anything hurtful) with an older brother. Our rule is that they can play back if he initatiates, but the older ones can be the ones initiating unless all are piled on Daddy who then leads.
I know one of our sons can tend to bully his little brother if we don’t keep it in check. He knows we know, and we don’t allow it but sometimes it happens. If we are aware, we don’t condone it and there are consequences. Just today, I was throwing the football with 3 of our sons (the oldest 3). One of our sons began to tease his older brother, who is not nearly as athletic and was missing catches but he was doing his best. I gave our son one warning to stop the teasing, but he did it again. So I just removed him from the fun activity. He didn’t like it and he let me know, but again, he was told he was not allowed to play b/c he was using unkind words toward his brother. I then took him to Daddy, who was working hard on a Christmas surprise for youngest brother, and this son had to shadow Daddy rest of the afternoon. Yes, he ended up enjoying it, but at the same time, he missed out on some freedom he normally is allowed on Sunday afternoons and he had to do some extra chores in the workshop too.
I don’t think you can nip all boy competition in the bud, but you can give consequences for behavior that you and your DH have deemed unacceptable. One other thing we do is have our boys sit at the ends of the table facing each other when things really escalate. While one usually initiates th wrong, the other can choose to turn the other check (which our older son did today when being teased) or he can choose to retaliate. When this happens, both are punished and sitting at table staring at each other usually results in laughter eventually instead of a shouting match (b/t the two). Then when the laughter ensues, we can gently tell one another what was most hurtful and apologize and move on usually.
HTH and don’t be too hard on yourself. One of my sons is not easily reprimanded–Strong-willed child is putting it mildly. Some of the traditional methods just don’t always work for every child.
I think everyone gave great advice. I myself am having to correct my children over and over for different things. I also take the instigator out of the picture. Sometimes they come up with new ideas!!! 🙂
I think it is always a challenge. It is not always the same problems. I do tell them we will turn around and go back home if we are headed somewhere and they start in on each other. I have done that once or twice before, It is effective. Of course, it is better to try when you don’t have to be somewhere. It is always nice to try stuff when you either don’t feel like going or don’t need to go. 🙂 Those are times for great disapline. I have even been somewhere and they were acting up and we left. I give them warning and then we leave. I have also sent them to the vehicle to sit until we are done. I have had refusal which means we give out extra correction. I have had to excuse myself to take care of a problem. It is embarrassing sometimes.
One time when we had company over I noticed my son was tearing apart the room. I could hear him from downstairs. I thought it might be my friends child also because she does the same thing at her house. I was in awe to discover my child doing it by himself. She was playing quietly with dolls in a corner of the room. I thought back to the room being destroyed last time we had someone over and I sent him to his room. He wasn’t to come out until they left and he was ready to clean up his sister’s room. This did stop the destroying the room behavior but I didn’t put anything past him after that.
I have had to correct my son recently in public and was chastized for it. So, I can sympathize with your reluctancy to want to do it around others. However, like mentioned above. You have to correct them immediately, in order to get them to realize it is everywhere they have to obey you. Not just at home or at others homes. Sometimes, we can not predict when and where. Our children are clever. They know us. Sometimes we just have to show them they don’t know us as well as they think. 🙂
BLessings and I hope you have a better time next time. I think a planned correction date is waiting in the future. 🙂
I agree with LDImom re. letting boys roughhouse being a part of their make-up. Our boys are 8 (almost 9) and 3 and they roughhouse a lot, but our older son knows that he cannot play with smaller kids like he might with a friend his size. We don’t usually have any injuries, but if we do, it’s our older one who gets hurt accidentally.
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