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Discipline help
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I need input on what to do for this behavior. I’ll just tell what happened this morning… My 3yo was putting on clothes & decided to go in my 6yo’s drawer of clothes that are for play (i.e. ok to get dirty, messy) to get something. She comes out & my older starts in on her about wearing her clothes. I’m looking out the door & she’s manhandling her sister trying to turn her around in the midst of them arguing that those are the older one’s clothes not the 3yo’s. I tell her to leave her sister alone, & she’s still doing it then slaps her sister across the back, tells her she’s ugly, makes some comment about hoping something happens to something of her sister’s (can’t really recall the comment but one basically saying I’m mad & want you to suffer). I tell her to go to timeout in the midst of this, & she tells me no so I go to enforce it but she’s gotten in the corner by that point. This is not an unusual scenario. The slapping her sister is bad but the ugly attitude, always trying to get revenge through her comments. She gets into whatever she wants that belongs to her sister without much to-do from her sister about it typically. Plus, I try to teach them that everything here is for everyone (generally), She’s been in timeout for a while now b/c I’m so tired of trying to figure out a consequence that works for her & seeming to still have the problem so just put her there until I can figure out what to do. A
Okay, so I am confused. Is this the 3yo slapping and smack talking or the older child? Either way, I am going to say the same thing:
Foolishness, and yes, sin, is bound up in the heart of a child. If a loving, perfect home life could prevent sin, then why did Christ come and die for us? So don’t be too shocked when you see sin in your kids hearts. But, that doesn’t make it acceptable. At 3yo, she obviously wants to control other people and other things. She can’t, and that is frustrating and produces anger, which she acts upon.
So basically, you have to consistently discipline the heart of her not respecting and honoring the other people in your home. If there is a strict rule about not going into the other child’s drawers, then explain the rule to her and then discipline her quickly if she breaks the rule (I am thinking a hand slap, but if you aren’t into that, maybe a brief time out). It seems like there is some ambiguity about the rule, though. 3yo’s are pretty black and white. Establish a clear rule and then explain it clearly to her.
The hitting, ugly comments, etc…are kind of a second issue but with the same root (disrespect). You need to talk to her about how God wants us to treat other people, that they are just as important as she is and have feelings that can be hurt, etc…and then come up with a discipline that will actually work.
Personally, I am not a big fan of time out, but if that is your chosen method than you had better be prepared to sit there with her and supervise her until her will is subdued and she will apologize sincerely to her sister. We make the kids hug after an argument, and usually this results in giggling that heals a lot of hurts.
Alternatives to time out? At our house, ugly words are disciplined with something distasteful in the mouth (lemon juice) or the loss of dessert or a sweet treat – sweets are for sweet mouths :0). Also, the child needs to think of three nice things to say to their sibling to heal the hurt they caused.
Hitting is a toughie with a three year old. Immediate time out or a spank followed by an apology to the offended person is what we would do.
We ALL have days like this! Don’t despair – God isn’t finished with them yet!
So sorry, isn’t it discouraging to see sin in our children? Servingwithjoy is right though, don’t despair! We also use the bitterness on the tongue for bitter words, I use a bit of vinegar. I think immediate action is best. Conversely, it’s great to catch them using sweet words and use a bit of sugar on the tongue to reinforce that.
I’m also not a big fan of time-outs, although I do think they have their place in some instances. For something like this I would again favor immediate action. Find three kind things that the offender can do for the offended — pick up her toys, share a toy, share a treat, make her bed, color a picture….
Ahhhhhh. Sibling rivalry at it’s best! I have one that seems to think this is a wonderful way to start the day. ( I beleive it has to do with the Scottish/ Irish background. 🙂 I also agree with the above advice. In my book they would both reap the reward for that one. They were both being disrespectful and self-centered. Some would say “Oh, but a three year old?” Yes, she knew how to put on the clothes. She knew what drawer to go to. She knew what buttons to push. I think they both need correction. I would sit down after the immediate correction and talk to your older one and tell her how much her younger sister looks up to her and wants to be like her. So much so that she wants to even wear her clothes to look like her. I have a younger sister and she was always trying things to get on my nerves.. (5 am hair dryer blair in my room after a long night of studying for a test that morning).
After some tough love advice my parents had received . my dad told me to take it oiutside he didn’t want the fighting in the house I grabbed her up pulled her down the stairs and knocked the tar out of her “outside”. Afterwards she never pestered me as much and I felt bad when my dad told me that she looked up to me. Don’t I feel bad for giving her a black eye? (yes, not one of my finer moments because she was in a wedding that weekend.) but I was the makeup artist and made her look pretty good. I didn’t blacken her eye ever again but she got the point that I didn’t have to take it either. I wouldn’t endorse it on a 3 yr old but it is effective on a 8 yr old.
Now, I may not recommend what my parents did but it did stop the fighting. 🙂 I however have a child that feels he can do this whenever he feels spunky. My older one knows it isn’t the G-dly way and doesn’t try to get back at him. Neither does my daughter. However, the other night he wouldn’t leave them alone before he went to bed. So, he needed to be corrected. I have found that the time-out isn’t for him. He thinks of it as a getaway. By get-a-way I mean with murder. It has no real value or meaning. He use to be one that didn’t care if you took away things either. Yes, we have tried just about everything. Now, your daughter may not need a lot of a correction. Taking away a priviledge for a week may be all she needs. However if you continue to see her man handling your 3 yr old then you may have to get ugly! 🙂 Vinegar is a good disapline but my child is allergic to it and therefore that isn’t a good idea. If your child isn’t I would suggest that you can use the correlating Bible verse of Jesus on the cross. How bitter the sin is that he took in when he needed water. I also have done the Ice Cream run. 🙂 Pile in we are taking a trip. To the Ice Cream shop. Oh, I am sorry but you will not be able to have any today. Your words hurt and were not sweet. I only give sweets to those who speak sweet. 🙂 He was very unhappy. However, I did make my point. That day we enjoyed a treat. It was sweet revenge for my other children whom were hurt by his action.
I know, I know, some may find me a little extreme in this but if you had to deal with it on a regular basis you would be creative also. Some children don’t need this because they are mild mannered. But if your children aren’t or if you have seen some that seem that the disapline just isn’t working then maybe extreme is what it takes to have peace… The Bible says we are to live peaceably.”
I also wasn’t sure if your daughter was allowed to wear the clothes or not. If she was allowed then I would just punish the older one. I read a very good book about children having their own things. Do you like having your own toothbrush? Not wanting to have someone else use it. What if the neighbor came into your garage and used a tool and didn’t bring it back right away? or at all? It was yours. You paid for it. Aquired it. ect.. There are just some things that we are to claim for ourselves. Otherwise others may not take care of it and then when we need it it isn’t their to use. I found this very fascinating and thought. Yes, even children need their own things and privacy. So with that I had to rethink the everything is everyones property.
I also like Doorpost. They have wonderful material. I also like some of the videos of S.M. Davis. Love and Logic also has good books. and one of my favorites is “No Greater Joy” They put it really good prospective. I think I have read and tried everything under the sun. Sometimes some old fashioned correction also helps. 🙂
Have a blessed day and I am sure you will get a lot of good advise as I can see you have already. 🙂
Hugs to you, BetsyR. I have read your posts in the past and I know you are struggling in this season. Do you have a good routine worked out? I hope you are able to keep up with exercise, good nutrition and taking good care of yourself.
I am thankful for the posters here in reminding me that I am not alone on this and that sin and foolishness is bound up in the heart of every child. It seems that I have this silly checklist in mind when it comes to behavior issues; like I expect to deal with them once, check them off the list, and move on never to deal with that again. But the bad behavior will continue to show its ugly face until the heart of the child has changed and the bad behavior is replaced with a good behavior. This will take repetitive training on issues of the heart. “Out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.” We must keep on sowing and in time we will reap what we sow.
There are many Christian parenting books available that address the issue of the heart. I am not very familiar with the ones chocodog mentioned, so I will share what I have read: books by Tedd Tripp, Ginger Plowman, and Sally Clarkson. Some of the books address spanking, but you can still glean a lot about heart issues even without that part. I am also hoping to go through a book next about teaching us to honor others, Say Goodbye to Whining, Complaining, and Bad Attitudes in You and Your Kids. This is a parent resource, but has weekly family devotions in the appendix to help you teach your kids how to give honor to others.
I do use time out and I think it is sometimes more for my sake than theirs so that I can clear my mind and gather my thoughts as to what to talk about with them. I used to watch the ABC show Super Nanny and time out was very effective. But she always stressed that the parent must have a discussion and hug with the child after each time out. I think of the golden rule here because she would ask them questions about how what they did wrong hurt others and how it would make them feel if the same thing were done to them. So I see how similar it is to heart probing, but I like to add in a Biblical perspective too.
Currently I am reading through the Plowman book, Don’t Make Me Count to Three! This time I am taking notes and journaling (narration) so I can better understand and apply heart probing and applying relevant Scriptures. We need to walk them through the heart issues by asking them questions. Here’s an example: “Why did you do that?” They will probably say, “I don’t know.” Then you will have to help draw out the reason: selfishness, anger, envy, etc. and give them a relevant Scripture verse, “The Bible says that…” “Was God pleased with what you did?” “No.” “How did that make your sister feel?” “Hurt, sad, etc.” “Was that foolish or wise?” “Foolish.” “Why?” “Do you want to be foolish or wise?” “Wise.” Pray with them. “How do you think you should have responded that would please God?” Help them if they can’t figure it out, then role play and have the child take the correct action and say nice words. Apology to sibling follows. There is much more on this in the books by Tedd Tripp and Ginger Plowman. Tripp has more on the method and Plowman has more on real life examples of applying it.
In order for you and your children to understand and apply the Scriptures to their hearts, you will have to be consistantly teaching the Bible daily and not just when a bad behavior arises. We read some of Proverbs daily after breakfast and discuss it. I started this when my daughter was 4 years old, after seeing Tedd Tripp speak. My son was 6 and being older, he seemed to get more out of it. But my 4 year old got enough out of it to know right from wrong, wise from foolish, righteous from wicked. They need to be able to dissern these when you are talking with them after a bad behavior. Also we read other Bible stories and sing hymns and do a Scripture Memory Box. I think all of that also helps with understanding issues of the heart and gives them a love for God and a desire to please Him.
I also recommend character books for you to read aloud to your children and discuss together. Many of them are recommended by SCM. My younger child listens in and I know she is learning, but I do not expect narration from her as I do my older child.
http://simplycharlottemason.com/planning/scmguide/personaldev/
A Child’s Book of Character has short stories for each focused character theme. Some examples are honesty, patience, thankfulness, obedience, etc. I spread these 4 to 5 themed short lessons out over 2 weeks, so we are reading one 2-3 times per week and I try to remind them of that character in our daily life as I see it applied or where it could be applied.
My children love the stories about the Millers. We have all enjoyed and gleaned a lot from them. They are always excited for me to read another one. Sometimes my children will bring up a story later as it applies to our real life. We have especially enjoyed Prudence and the Millers as manners, health, and safety were taught. We have not yet done Wisdom and the Millers. The first one we read was Storytime with the Millers and was an easier read.
Another resource we are using to teach Scripture and related manners and health is from Rod and Staff for grade 2 health, Proper Manners and Health Habits. There are activities in it like fill in the blank and cross word puzzles, but we just read the Scripture and story and discuss it together (narration). Some of them are the same things Prudence and the Millers addressed. The issue of privacy is in both. Stay out of other’s things unless you have their permission: drawers, closets, doors (bathroom), purses, personal letters, mail, journals, etc. So that is one issue I see with your 3 yo; not respecting the older sister’s privacy. She should not get into her drawer without permission. 1 Thessalonians 4:11
Also see Proverbs 17:5 and 1 Corinth. 13:6 for the issue of wishing revenge and suffering.
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