Name: Spreading the Feast Gathering
Start: 2025-07-11T00:00:00-05:00
End: 2025-07-12T23:59:59-05:00
Location: LaGrange, KY

Tagged: LOE versus other curriculum, Logic of English, Natural Speller, Natural Speller or Logic of English?

This topic has 19 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 1 month ago by happystayathomeschoolmom.

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April 15, 2014 at 10:40 pm
happystayathomeschoolmom
Participant
I’m new to the SCM but am looking fowrard to this journey!
I’d like to get some feedback regarding two different spelling programs. My son (age 10) is not an intuitive speller but is reading at a high school level. We’ve been doing copywork for about two years. His handwriting is beautiful but his spelling needs a lot of work. Logic of English seems a bit overwhelming to me but it also seems thorough and would make the rules understandable. Natural Speller seems less intimidating but I wonder if the rules are up to date/thorough enough and if it would be too much preparation time? I’d like to hear about any of your experiences with these curriculum?
thanks!
April 16, 2014 at 11:37 am
Doug Smith
Keymaster
In a Charlotte Mason style education spelling is taught using a technique called “prepared dictation”. We have a Prepared Dictation Explained video that shows how it works if you’d like to find out more.
April 16, 2014 at 1:58 pm
Heather
Participant
Awesome video. Thanks SCM!
April 16, 2014 at 2:36 pm
Bookworm
Participant
Natural Speller is just lists of spelling words. I had it and used it as a “backup” to see if my kids could do words for my first kid because I was nervous about him being “behind.” I do think basic spelling and phonics rules are useful. I have to confess that the very, very heavy rule-based methods do not work for me or my children. I do very much value prepared dictation, and there are many reasons why. The child is not studying words “in a vacuum” but in the course of real language. One can use any combination of methods to study and prepare the words, including but not limited to phonics based rules, visualization, word study and breakdown (what language it’s from, prefixes, suffixes, etc.) mnemonics, picture-based memory aids–whatever your child needs to get that word down. In the long run, this can help make a speller more intuitive. I recommend this method since it is so adaptable.
April 16, 2014 at 7:20 pm
happystayathomeschoolmom
Participant
Thank you for all your comments. I will watch the video. I do like the idea of using spelling words in an enriching context. Question for “Bookworm.” – Do you mean use some of the combination of methods listed above to increase the intutiveness while using Spelling Wisdom or Natural Speller? Also, are the rules in Natural Speller included with each list of words or are they a separate part of the book? How would you (or anyone else), apply basic phonics rules while using Spelling Wisdom? I learned very few phonics rules, am a “creative speller :)” so I’m not sure I could teach rules in a spontaneous way.
April 16, 2014 at 7:53 pm
Bookworm
Participant
I mean we study each word the child might have difficulty spelling. We apply what phonics rules we know. (I myself prefer keeping this part simple, as it seems to me from my time in spelling bees that the kids who spelled best weren’t the ones who knew 97 different rules for when to use each pronunciation of “ough” but the ones who could SEE the word in their heads.) We apply basic phonics where appropriate. We add in whatever else helps, and at all times “take a picture” of the word and work until we can “see” it and then recognize it as correct when written down. We will use any tool we can find to HELP in this, including origin of word (that will often, for example, result in a “ph” spelling for the “fff” sound if the word is from the Greek.) We will use whatever mnemonic devices we can come up with. (WE are WEird) We will use mental pictures. One of my children struggled with remembering where the “h’s” go in “rhythm” until he decided to think of the H’s as drumsticks being held right after the first letter and before the last. You don’t have to be a phonics expert. You could even use something as simple as a webpage as a rule of thumb to get you started (you might consider one like this.
http://www.myteacherpages.com/webpages/lthreadgill/parent_resources.cfm?subpage=907764

April 16, 2014 at 9:28 pm
TX-Melissa
Participant
I would agree that the prepared dictation would be the preferred way to go. However, if you have a student who is unable to do that due to learning struggles, that Logic of English you mentioned looks like a good option. It is not just for spelling, though. It integrates spelling with reading, writing, and grammar. Thanks to a couple of ladies here I have been doing some research and the systematic approach they use is what is recommended for kiddos with dyslexia. And what they recommend for after going through their “Essentials” looks pretty CM. 🙂
http://www.logicofenglish.com/blog/371-what-next-after-essentials
I know my kiddo cannot do dictation. Now that we’re figuring out there may be an underlying issue for this and other struggles he’s had, I’m looking at these types of programs. They do use some dictation in TLE, which gives me some hope that after completing something like this maybe my kiddo might reach a point of being able to do the prepared dictation in the CM manner. So I’m adding that one to my list. Thanks! 🙂
Melissa
April 17, 2014 at 9:28 pm
happystayathomeschoolmom
Participant
Thanks for the different perspectives. My son is not dyslexic but has had some hearing issues which could be related to his difficulty in spelling simple words. As is talked about in the introductory youtuve video to Logic of English, I would also classify him as the “engineer type.” So, I could go either way. Decision making- aargh
Bookworm – what resource do you like to use for the origon of words? The link you gave looks helpful. Melissa – Do you know how Logic of English compares with All About Spelling?
April 18, 2014 at 12:27 am
Bookworm
Participant
I just use a good dictionary for word origin. I also do recommend study of Latin or Greek or Latin/Greek roots for its extreme usefulness in vocabulary development and spelling and many other things. Although that probably isn’t necessary at only 10 (I rarely start a classical language that early.) One other thing you could do is point out other words spelled the same way, etc.
April 19, 2014 at 1:02 am
happystayathomeschoolmom
Participant
I seem to remember spelling “clicking” with word families.

April 23, 2014 at 3:49 am
TX-Melissa
Participant
I’m so sorry I haven’t gotten back to this thread, happystayathomeschoolmom. We’ve been in the midst of window and siding replacement. Whew!
I so know what you mean about making decisions! Argh! I thought I had next year all figured out and am having to completely rethink things. I have AAS, LoE and also Reading Horizons (no spelling there) on my list of considerations for spelling/English/Reading for next year. AAS would be just spelling, whereas LoE integrates spelling with other aspects of English study. That is just a 1-2 year program, whereas you would use AAS over several years (7 levels). It is recommended to begin older remedial students at Level 1. Each does multi-sensory somewhat differently. Letter tiles and a phonogram sounds app for AAS, flash cards and games with LoE (Essentials).
Its funny that Bookworm mentions studying Latin and Greek. My ds had requested to learn Latin and I had planned to do that next year using Visual Latin. However, I am now thinking maybe I should hold off on that until after we go through something like LoE or AAS . . . Oh, these decisions! LOL 😉
Melissa
April 23, 2014 at 4:17 am
TX-Melissa
Participant
I usually find Cathy Duffy’s reviews helpful, as well, for more detail:
http://cathyduffyreviews.com/phonics_reading/Logic-of-English.htm
http://cathyduffyreviews.com/spelling-vocabulary/all-about-spelling.htm
I’m reading over them now. 🙂
Melissa
April 27, 2014 at 11:25 pm
happystayathomeschoolmom
Participant
I understand – life is always happening. 🙂 Do you have LOE yet? Have you tried it to see if if it’s engaging for your son? I’m concerned about the fun factor and retention… I’d like to hear if it’s working for you. Cathy’s reviews are really helpful; I’ve read through Cathy D’s reviews as well as Amazon and the Well-Trained Mind.
I’ve been testing whether my kids can handle dictation with The Three R’s by Ruth Beechek. If we can do it, I’m thinking I will attempt to use SW.
I’ve also looked at a number of other programs to “supplement.” I’m considering – A Reason for Spelling, Apples to Pears, or SOS. We have the SOS Languaghe Arts CD Rom which we never used from a few years ago. Since the kids are learning to type, I might just supplement with that. My ds really likes computer work. I’m also looking at Spelling Power. The parents on Amazon gave really high reviews of this program (only five minutes a day per child, good retention, and engaging). If we didn’t use it, I could still use the activity box (full of 100’s of ways to study a word) for Spelling Wisdom.
I plan to buy the LOE as a reference book and have not taken it off of my list. It seems to be the best, most up to date coverage of rules. However, I’d like to see more reviews from parents who have tried it out…
I’m undecided about Latin too. If your son is interested in it, maybe it would help him with his spelling…

April 28, 2014 at 2:38 pm
TX-Melissa
Participant
No, I haven’t ordered anything yet. That is where I’m stuck, deciding between AAS along with either their reading program or Reading Horizons, or the Logic of English, which is appealing in that its one program instead of two. I, too, would find it helpful to hear from parents of older students how well these programs worked for them. While these are less expensive than the Barton program, it’s still a good chunk of change to spend. Lol! We’re also trying to get information on testing for dyslexia and hope that will help in choosing materials and developing a plan. I wish he was able to do SW, that would be so much simpler. 🙂
I definitely want to do Latin. I’m just thinking we may need to wait a year considering our current stuck position with reading & spelling, not to mention math. Oye!
Anyway, I’m so thankful you asked the question so I could learn about Logic of English. I am really leaning toward that one now. 🙂
Melissa
April 28, 2014 at 9:07 pm
TX-Melissa
Participant
I googled “Logic of English Essentials reviews” and found some bloggers that tried the program and wrote a review – very helpful. I’ll try that for AAS next. 🙂