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Dealing with lying
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My 12 year old has a tendency to lie. But despite being caught red handed, he will defend the original lie and no amount of lecturing, no threats or loss of privileges will make any difference. Tonight, while I was seeing our guests settled I heard screaming and crying from my younger son’s room. I came upstairs to find my younger son upset because his brother had stolen a little throw blanket from him. Somehow he’d been wacked in the face during the cuffuffle and there was a red mark on the side of his nose and his cheek. I went to the other sons room and asked what was happening and where the blanket had ended up and he denied knowing any about it. I found the blanket thrown on to his top bunk bed, but he insisted it was his own blanket that he’d found in his closet and thrown up there. They do have identical throws an aunt had given them a few years back, but just yesterday he’d put his blanket in his brothers room saying he didn’t want it anymore, that he’d given it to his brother weeks ago and it had been left in his room for some reason. Knowing younger son didn’t need another blanket in his room I put the throw into the hall closet. I explained that I knew he was lying because I myself had tucked the younger son in with the throw and the other blanket was right where I had left it. He still insisted that he hadn’t taken the blanket from his brother but had found it in his closet. Knowing he was not going to back down, admit or apologize, I took his away his ipod. I didn’t want to stand there and argue with him or give him the opportunity to compound the lie further, so I just confiscated his most valuable possession.
I’m not sure if I handled this right, we’ll, or whatever. I am so frustrated because he lies so often that we have come to automatically take younger sons word over his every time. Our younger son gets into enough trouble of his own but won’t lie about it. He won’t necessary come out and say I did this, but if he’s asked if he did something wrong he immediately apologies. Younger son is also very generous and older very greedy and often mean spirited, especially towards his little brother. I’m at a loss as to how to nurture a better attitude. I’m afraid he will just learn that he needs to get better at lying or not to get caught, but that his attitude isn’t going to really change.
I feel terrible. I desperately want to encourage him in a real heart change, but I don’t feel I am reaching him at all. Anyone have any suggestions at all?
Hm, not sure whether I am able to give any suggestons… It’s a delicate matter, isn’t it. I only have a young daugther and am not experienced with boys.. But I think it’s wonderful that you feel the urge to really get it right and help your older son out of the traps (he’s laid himself). I guess it’s quite likely that jealousy plays a role… How old is your younger son and are you homeschooling? Who is your oldest son hanging out with? This certainly can have great impact on kids (on anyone, I always feel either uplifted or burdened depending on the people I spend my time with..) That love coveres a multitude of sins came to my mind, of course. I know it’s easier said than done but maybe you could try to do exactly the opposite of what your older son expects or is used to. Maybe you could try to hug (our genly touch or just smile at) him and tell him that you love him regardless of what he does or what happens and just take a totally different turn: Like just trying to smile at him and be very nice and in every situation remain a peace-maker, practising peace whatever challenge you are facing. Maybe it’s a good start to start with your own heart and just try to keep your OWN heart at peace, not lose your temper, not lose your joy, your peace. It’s a biggie, I know, the own heart… I’ll have a pray and maybe I’ll come up with more suggestions 🙂 Blessings to you and keep strong and joyful and thankful (also applies for myself:-)
We have a 9yo daughter who has problems making up stories. She is not mean spirited, but, when she does something and is confronted, will try to justify it by manipulating the details. She doesn’t deny it, but will try to make it look like it was not intentional. Just the other day, her dad came down or her and told her to stop making up stories. When I have dealt with her, I talk to her about lying and what the Bible says. If you are using the Bible as your instruction manual, you need to address the problem as sin and it is an abomination. Proverbs 12:22 – “Lying lips are abomination to the Lord: but they that deal truly are his delight.” Abomination means something God abhors or hates. He still loves us, but He hates what we are doing. We are a delight to Him when we are truthful. My daughter is sensitive and I know wants to please the Lord,so when we have this issue or other ‘sin’ issues, as I did with our 3 grown children when they were young, I ask her who she wants to please, God or Satan. I tell her that when she lies, or whatever it is, that she is pleasing Satan. If I just address this as something she shouldn’t do because ‘I’ say it is wrong, there will be no change. It has to be addressed from a Biblical standpoint. If the child truly loves the Lord, he/she will want to please Him. The act of obedience to parents should be addressed this way. I remind my daughter that when she disobeys her parents, she is disobeying God, because He says in His Word, “Childen obey your parents”. Pray with the child and ask God to help the child to do what is right. This gives the child accountabilty to God when he/she hears you making a request to God about his/her behavior.
This needs to be balanced with letting the child know that we love him/her no matter what they do. But, they need to know that with the sin, there are consequences. I’m not very patient, so, the attitude in which I respond is going to make a difference in the child’s attitude. Another thing I will do, if I detect there is something else wrong that may cause the child to do this, is encourage the child to talk about their feelings. The pp mentioned jealousy. If jealousy would be an issue, then that needs to be dealt with. Let your son express to you his feelings about his brother. If there is a problem with resentment or jealousy then you have some work to try to build him up. It happens often where one child feels another child gets special treatment. We’ve had that with ours. Our 9yo even gets jealous of her 22yo sister who is still living at home. I have to remind her that a 9yo does not get all the privileges that a 22yo gets. I think some of it is that she gets upset because she wants her sister to spend time with her. When she doesn’t, then she throws a pity party. I said all this to say that you need to find out if your son has bitterness or jealousy toward anyone that may be causing him to act in this way. Let him know how it hurts you, but, most importantly, help him to see how it hurts our Lord’s heart. He loves and forgives, but there are consequences. HTH
I feel for you and would to hear more as I am going through this with my ds who is 11. He’s doing exactly what you are saying. I have been hard on him, I have been gentle yet firm, I have tried it all but when he’s found guilty and knows he’s caught he will not give in. Now I will say there are times he has come up to us after the punishment is said and done and appologize. But for the right reasons, not usually it’s because he’s hoping his sentence will be lessened which it never is. Thansk for the topic
There is nearly a four year age difference between our boys and I think that there has always been some jealousy and resentment there towards his younger brother. I think it is more so when his brother gets a bit more attention, which he probably was a bit last night from my friend’s 15 year old daughter. Now that I’ve read your posts and I am a bit more awake and able to look back on the weekend clearer, I can see that his little brother occupied most of Dad’s attention the day before, as well. (Dh had been away for work and Saturday when he got home he took out our younger son for the day because he’d saved enough money to buy his own bike. What should have been and hour and a half trip ended up being four, but that’s another story, then he had to go away for work again yesterday and will get home just in time to take our company to the airport this afternoon.) It will never occur to older ds that his brother almost never gets one-on-one time with dad, but he does simply becasue they share more common interests. They go play sports together, tap the trees together, hunt and fish together, but younger ds isn’t into all that.
As far as friends go, he really doesn’t have many now that we homeschool. It’s kind of a sore point with him because he thinks that he needs tons of frinds to be happy. The few other friends that he has live further away so it’s hard to get together, especially through the week. It doesn’t help that it is their March break this week and I have school scheduled becasue we are taking a family vacation in April. He was hoping his best buddy would be over Saturday to work on their fort, and he probably would have been fine if that had worked out, but when his friend called to say his family was going to the pool instead he threw a fit.
I try to stay calm and explain to him about what God says about lying, but He will just keep insisting that he is not lying, and as that is obviously a lie, there is absolutely no point in continuing the conversation. My friend said what she usually does is give them the option of confessing at the moment the punishment is given, and if they do, the punishment is usually less (maybe one day) if not, then the punishment lasts longer (maybe 3 days).
Now that I’ve had a chance to reflect on what might be the current root of the problem, I will have to address it accordingly. The thing is, I still cannot allow the lying to go undealt with. I mean I guess I can say, alright, you didn’t tell the truth, so the iPod is gone for three days, but then tell my husband that he needs to find some serious one-on-one time to spend with him this week.
Maybe addressing the root of the problem is part of the solution, but it’s certainly not going to change the fact that Dad has to go away for work often, that his buddy isn’t always going to be available when he wants him to be, and that there is only so much I can do about our school schedule in order to accomplish everything if he wants to take the summer off.
This is the son who spent five years in the PS system pulling away from us. We’ve only been homeschooling for the last year and a half, so we are still pretty new. I think I need to get out my copy of Laying Down the Rails again. I am afraid I’ve not really used it much since I got it last year.
If anyone else has anything else to offer, especially from personal experience, I’d appreciate it. You are all giving me much to think about already, thanks.
Just have a second, but wanted to caution you against fitting your son with a sin label. You do not want to get into the habit of comparing your children- this one is ‘good’, that one is a ‘liar’. I know it is difficult when you have a strong willed child-but be sure your love for him “hopes all things, and believes all things”. The worst thing that can happen is that he begins to identify himself as the black sheep in your family. Use these moments as salvation pointers-we are all in need of our Savior, no matter what our sin tendency is.
While it is right that a parent should discipline for lying, at 12 years old it is a change in his heart that will stop the lying. It sounds like you have a complex situation going on. It seems his years in PS, sibling issues, and needing more one on one time with dad as a young man, all play a huge role in behaviors. It brings to mind some saying about people that feel bad, act bad. Obviously that doesn’t mean you don’t discipline, it is your job to do that. Life is often unfair but as Chritians we are called to be obedient to Him regardless of our circumstances. So, yes, talk to him about and work on the underlying causes, but also talk to him about walking in obedience to Christ even when he is upset. He may not even realize or be making the connection that ‘I’m jealous of my brother because he spent time with dad so I was purposefully mean to him.’ You may need to name the sin and talk specifically about it for him to grasp what is going on in his own heart. Maybe talking with him about what kind of person he wants to be, and how he wants others to view him, or what he wants his reputation to be, would be helpful also?
Something else I remember reading was to not give your kids the chance to lie if you can help it. Don’t ask a kid with chocolate around their mouth if they took a cookie. Just say we don’t eat cookies without asking mama first, now you’ll have to skip your after dinner treat. Done. This example was about much younger kids, but even at 12, why give a known liar more opportunity to lie?
These are just some thoughts I had while reading your posts. I haven’t had much experience with this with my own young kids yet.
eawerner said, “Maybe talking with him about what kind of person he wants to be, and how he wants others to view him, or what he wants his reputation to be, would be helpful also?”
This is good. Another point to that is letting the child know that if he keeps lying, nobody will trust him or believe anything he says. Because we have this problem sometimes with our daughter, there are times when she does tell the truth, but we question it because of the lying. Then she gets upset because we don’t believe her. That is the opportunity to say again to her that, because she lies, we don’t know what to believe. I think this has helped some. She doesn’t seem to do it as often, or if she lies or exaggerates about something, she is a little quicker to correct herself. Bathe your son in prayer, and pray for wisdom. And be consistent.
“Another point to that is letting the child know that if he keeps lying, nobody will trust him or believe anything he says. Because we have this problem sometimes with our daughter, there are times when she does tell the truth, but we question it because of the lying. Then she gets upset because we don’t believe her. That is the opportunity to say again to her that, because she lies, we don’t know what to believe. I think this has helped some. She doesn’t seem to do it as often, or if she lies or exaggerates about something, she is a little quicker to correct herself. Bathe your son in prayer, and pray for wisdom. And be consistent.”
^^This is what we’ve had to do repeatedly in our house.
Our oldest DS is also the one that has had trouble with the truth in the past. There have been many times when we’ve had to confirm his latest story with others just to be sure it was true. It upset him that we didn’t believe him, but we just reiterated that because of his prior lies, we can’t just believe everything he says. It’s been awhile now, but he has finally earned back our trust. But he knows, he could lose it again easily if the lying starts again.
Not sure if this will help, but I *am* sure that it doesn’t really explain anything… I just wanted to empathize and show that hopefully it is a phase.
Even though I am an OLD lady now, I remember vividly going through this stage at about 12 to 14 years. I would lie about anything, even exceptionally insignificant things, even things that I knew I would not benefit from, things that were not just to get or keep me out of trouble, not just things that would make me look good (and my brother bad) but also things of no consequence. Once, I remember an adult (not sure if it was a teacher or older relative) asking me what color my eyes were. Just so you know, they are green, but I looked right at this person and told them, “My eyes are brown.” Now, they could clearly see that my eyes were/are not brown. It’s possible they looked blueish or grayish or a combo, but they surely were/are not brown. This adult looked a little shocked and gave me an out,”Oh, is that right? Well, they look kind of greenish in this light, not brown.” I could have easily said, “Oh, yeah, I was just kidding you.” But I stuck with that lie for all I was worth and to this day I don’t know why. Now that I am a mom, I sense that maybe I was needing some attention that particular day. I know that I was neglected in many ways by both parents (they seemed to find children a bother and discipline a bore). Not that this is a reflection on parents of kids who tend to lie. As you can see below, I’m having my own issues with this…
Anyway, I still remember that interaction for some reason and I think it is so that I can better help my own kids with their lying tendencies. I suffered due to that phase and not having my parents trust me and I hope to help my kiddos never repeat that history.
I agree with another poster who suggested doing the exact opposite of what your son has come to expect. Maybe if you give him no attention when he lies, barely even bothering to correct with more than “the look” (we all have one), and then showering him with praise and attention when he is responsible and makes those good choices, maybe he will respond well.
Another idea I have used with my dd-9-in-6-days is to reinact the whole situation with some suggestions of better choices. We play act the whole thing out and I ask them to change what they say to better reflect the right behavior. Even though I am usually furious at this point, I try to make this a very lighthearted exercise. That levity helps us all.
Another option I’ve used lately is this: With your blanket story, you could just offer, “Would you rather change your statement to, ‘yes, I took brother’s blanket, yes, we wrestled for it, and yes, I’m sorry he got hurt’?” If he says yes, he wants to retract his first excuse and choose the second one, let him. If he says he doesn’t like your version, ask him if there is another (third) version he would like to give. If the truth comes out, I offer praise for that behavior and minimize the punishment for lying. I make sure she sees I am thrilled with her telling the truth, with taking responsibility, for being very “grown up” about the whole situation. When I am on the phone with my mom, I make sure to tell her all about what happened and be certain to point out the bad things that *could* have happened, like she would have missed out on such-and-such activity or adventure, but she didn’t! 🙂
And then I have to exercise just enormous amounts of forgiveness and mercy to let it go. To praise her for choosing the right path and praying together very quickly to have continued good choices the rest of the school day, or the rest of the week, whatever.
Whatever you go with, I just pray you get thorough this season quickly and with the least amount of stress for all of you! 🙂
Thank you, all of you. My son actually fessed up this afternoon when I got back from work. I also had some time this afternoon this afternoon to talk a bit, though he didn’t say much. At least he didn’t argue or talk back. Many of you have offered some great suggestions and some alternate perspectives that that I will seriously consider with my dh.
I have no experience with this age but wanted to add a gentle reminder about the book “5 Love Languages of Teenagers”…I know that quality time with Dad is important regardless of his love language but it doesn’t hurt to make sure he has a full love tank too!
Dh is off tomorrow and hoped to do something with him, but not sure what will happen. Ds went to bed early with a headache and he’s starting to sneeze. He may have had a very low fever. Odds are dh will come down with it, too, after the hours he has put in this past week. The best they might get is a game of hockey on the wii if they both end up sick.
I was thinking about love languages. My older son is definitely quality time. Younger ds is a physical touch all the way. I’m still trying to figure mine out. It’s probably physical touch, though I am not a touchy-feely person and the only ones I want to touch or be touched by are my dh and sons. I’m getting better at accepting hugs from others, but I don’t initiate.
There’s a book I recently heard of though I can’t remember the author. I think it’s called You Can’t Make Me, But I Can Be Persuaded. My ds is definitely a strong willed child.
I can totally relate to your frustration and concern!!
Lying is a difficult behavior to curb/stop. Do you happen to know why he is lying? What does he get out of it? I think that it is wise for you, as you said, to not believe him since that would be the natural consequence in the real world.
We had a child who had a strong habit of lying and had to take some very hard steps for the past several years. I let her get away with exaggeration and fish tales when she was younger. I wish I had been more aware of the habit that was growing. We have seen improvement overall, but I still am not happy with where things are.
According to the Bible lying is a very serious offence to God. Satan himself is called the Father of Lies. There is a story in the Bible that we all know about – the couple in the New Testament that lied about a certain amount of money. God struck them both dead. I shared these Bible verses with our child. I am not saying that you should tell your son that God will strike him dead if he lies but just that the Bible seems to indicate that lying is serious.
In our home, lying always gets the most severe consequence. My other children seem to have taken all this in as they have watched and thankfully have not developed a habit of lying like this child. We are still praying!
I also believe, IMHO, that only God can change a heart. Pray for your son fervently that God would give him a heart to tell the truth at all times. If we don’t pray for our own children daily, who will?
Blessings!
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