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Comprehension problems and a single reading.
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My (undiagnosed) dyslexic son often has trouble comprehending some of his readings…it’s usually worse when he reads but sometimes when we read aloud too. The thing is, Charlotte Mason said a SINGLE reading, and not watered down by explanations and too much talk, but if he just doesn’t seem to understand (and his 10 yo sister can) then do I just say …too bad? Because I really don’t think it’s inattention, but at the same time I don’t want him to develop the habit of ‘leaning’ on explanations. I know key words can be written down, but what if it’s the concept?… I try to avoid my getting in between him and the book, but sometimes I will slowly reread with him his personal reading (the one he’s supposed to do himself) and then sometimes he gets it. Is this still true to CM principles or is there another way to go about things?
He is also behind in maths but he doesn’t realise because I just go at his pace.
Any suggestions?
I know this seems so basic but try shorter passages and have him narrate more often with smaller chunks. Do just a couple of sentences, work his way up to a paragraph. Maybe when you reach the “official” end of the reading for the day then switch to your other child and have then do the overall narration but have this child narrate the short breaks in between.
Thanks Jamie, I do try that and sometimes he’s ok but other times he’s like ‘I just don’t know what they mean mum. I just don’t get it!’
I was reading cm volume 6 last night and interestingly she said “-he has to find his intellectual life in books or go without,- shall not be first taught to go on crutches” by too much talk or what she called oral lessons or questioning.
So, what to do? I’m afraid his not understanding will lead to discouragement and for my son that will then translate into eventually not trying. And I do understand that since if you continually don’t understand you eventually tune out ( like me and politics- ha).
How old is he? Older or younger than his sister?
Is it all books, or just some? I am wondering if they are truly above his understanding right now, but if you stepped down a grade or two that would help him understand as well as build his confidence in his abilities.
I know when my kids were learning to read, for quite a long time I would offer books below their reading level for them to read aloud to me because it built their confidence and kept it positive and reading was not a struggle.
Similar to what you are doing with his math, working at his pace, wondering if you might need to change up the reading as well. You could even continue with what you are doing, but add in different books geared towards him, that your DD could also enjoy as well.
I don’t know much about dyslexia but if he struggles with reading it makes sense to me that comprehension could be difficult because so much work is put into reading, that he easily forgets what he just read. I saw that a lot in my kids when they were early readers (and even into 2nd grade when reading was not quite “easy” yet) and that is why I would actually step down their required reading, while what I read aloud to them was at a higher level.
I also have to remind myself that while I really admire and like CM teachings and methods, I also have to do what works for my family and my children and remember that my children have time to reach those milestones, that when reading some of her quotes the expectation doesn’t have to be all at once, but time to grow into those skills.
He is 12 and his younger sisters are 10 and nearly 8.
I do wonder if it’s getting a handle on the punctuation because that can make all the difference with comprehension, and I do find when I read aloud it’s not so bad.
I hear what your saying sarah2106 about reading books on an easier level to gain fluency, and I have done that with most of his other books, it’s mostly the history reading that’s the main problem. He’s doing CHOW which is pretty much the most junior level for history books that there is, I’m not sure what book I could substitute it for and it still fits the criteria of a living book.
I do like what you said about ‘growing into cm skills’.
I guess I’m just trying to work out what will help him grow, keep his self-worth intact, but also be realistic.
Or do I just chill out, work hard on the skills based subjects with books he can understand and for content subjects like history and science just continue to read aloud. There seems to be a real division between SCM and AO on the read aloud/ read for themselves issue.
I think I’m getting myself worked up….breath deeply.😆
I am not sure what the next step is.
I have been listening to Hall and Melanie Young (Raising Real Men) and one of their sons was a struggling learner and did not learn to read until 11 or 12 (I can’t remember exactly now). She shared how when he was going into highschool she did not know if he would even be prepared to work a basic fast food job after graduation, but how all of a sudden things started coming together and he went to college on full academic scholarship. She spoke of not giving up and different steps she took along the way. On their web page they do have a section on struggling learners. I heard them speak at our homeschool conference and was so encouraged! I have been listening to their pod casts now.
Is there a reason you have chosen not to have your son officially diagnosed? I only ask because as your student gets older they could benefit from extra help when it comes to testing (ACT or SAT) and even into college or after highschool training if they do have an official diagnosis. That is something that Hall and Melanie Young even spoke up, how it is hard (and concerning) deciding to get a diagnosis but how for some it can really help some children.
They also have a PodCast and maybe searching through those you could find some suggestions and encouragement for a struggling learner.
Sorry that was not very practical help. I hope some others will chime in with thoughts and wisdom.
Does he have anything that really interests him? History, for example, instead of being concerned with specific time periods, if he is interested in electronics read about people who made contributions to that field, or if interested in baseball read about people through history that played, and the culture and history happening during that time. Not sure if that makes sense, LOL. I remember a couple years ago there was a speaker at our homeschool conference and her son really struggled with learning (reading and math) but loved baseball so she found books about baseball (and many of those include history, what was going on around the world and why baseball became popular…) and he finally learned to read as well as understand math because he was interested in statistics he saw how math worked in real life and the importance of it. He went on to be very successful, but she had to find something that really caught his interest to build his desire and confidence in learning then he took off.
Thanks for your words of encouragement Sarah.
I’ll pop over and have a look at the Youngs Web page.
The reason why I haven’t had him diagnosed is that it costs 0ver $600 here (we are in New Zealand) and it’s not government funded. But I have spoken to ALOT of mums who’s children have been diagnosed (and I’ve also done unofficial testing) and things are pointing g very strongly in that direction.
His reading has improved incredibly it’s just the comprehension that’s lagging. Maybe I won’t be so insistent on a single reading…maybe let him read and if he really doesn’t understand then I’ll read it to him.
That makes sense about official diagnosis.
I have a family member that struggled with undiagnosed dyslexia (it was many, many years ago, before they really knew what it was) and his mom read a lot of his books to him even into middle school. He always struggled with language arts, but excelled in math and science. If it had not been for his mom’s help, and being willing to read so much of his books to him (even later in school) I don’t know what would have happened to him education related. He went on to college with a full ride academic scholarship, even though his language arts was always a struggle, he did very well in college and on into his career as an engineer. Also interesting that his language arts skills improved so much after having children of his own, because he went back to basics reading to his kids.
I think there is often a rush to get our kids independent, and that is a good thing, but if you are reading to them or they are listening to the book on tape, they are still learning. Continue to have him practice with reading comprehension as it is a skill that is valuable but taking a bit longer to grasp, but I would continue to read to him (or have him listen to books on tape) as he continues to grow in his reading/comprehension skills.
That is quite heartening to hear about your relative. My husband did say, in his own words, that he was ‘a bit slower’ when he was my son’s age, and he now writes and assesses health and safety documents…he just flew under the radar when he was a kid.
It’s been so so helpful discussing this with all you lovely ladies, because beside gaining the suggestions from everyone else there is real value in voicing out loud your own thought process instead of it swirling round in a nebulous mass (I guess it’s a kind of narration of ideas and thoughts! Ha!) So the last couple of days I’ve been doing alot of thinking, thinking, thinking, and a few things have really crystallized for me. I’d love your feed back including any criticisms of my ideas.
I was wondering why he could physically read his book himself (we’ve made alot of progress with the words over the last year ) and yet not understand, but when I read it the comprehension is better ( not perfect, but better) So then I realised that one of the keys could be punctuation and inflection, particularly if ‘older’ style books are being read. The syntax and punctuation is alot more complex than alot of twaddly modern books.
When I read to him, I really emphasize the punctuation and inflection to help with comprehension. Many more complex sentences use commas parenthetically, like what I’m doing now, and require a drop in tone to convey this. This is not an easy thing to do particularly for a struggling reader. So although CM didn’t recommend alot of oral reading for the child, in some instances it can be beneficial. What I’m proposing to do is to incorporate oral reading lessons from his Mcguffeys readers. Interestingly, in the front of some of the volumes, is direction for elocution including inflection. So I might model it first, then get him to do it after, perhaps directing attention to the punctuation cues.
Then for conceptual understanding in say history and science, I might just do alot of readings, and then when my son encounters the concept or episode in his own reading he’ll have that mental hook. His reading won’t be his first exposure.
Phew…does this make sense and seem sensible, or is there some glaring problem that I’m just not seeing?
Appreciate your thoughts.
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