Common core concerns

Tagged: 

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • caycecronk
    Member

    The more I read and learn about common core the more alarmed I am! It seems as though it will effect homeschoolers just as much as public schoolers. Wandering what everyone’s thoughts were on common core?! I would like to avoid it as much as possible but a lot of the homeschooling curriculums are aligning with common core. Is there a list of resources that are not going to common core? We use the right start math level b and getting ready to start c….is the new edition much different than the first?!

    sarah2106
    Participant

    This site has the most complete list I have found with information about who is CC aligned curriculum and details http://www.hsroadmap.org/common-core-project/

     

    HSLDA has good information and their new video “Building the Machine” is a great introduction of what common core is and how it effects our children and their (and our future) http://www.hslda.org/commoncore/

    Sue
    Participant

    Even the fact that some states are reconsidering their position on Common Core Standards is not necessarily comforting. Here is a link to an article about the state of Indiana, an early proponent of CCSS, pulling out of Common Core: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/25/indiana-becomes-first-state-to-drop-common-core-standards/.

    You’d think that would be good news for those who are opposed to Common Core. However, if you read further, you see that some of these states are merely adopting nearly the same standards under their own state program name to avoid alignment with the federal mandate and, presumably, the backlash that might go along with such an association.

    suzukimom
    Participant

    As far as RS edition 2, the same basic methods and concepts are used.  RS edition 2 does meet common core – but it exceeds it.  (edition 1 mostly exceeds it too)

    I don’t have edition 2, but this is my understanding….

    Edition 2 uses the manipulatives more, and a larger variety throughout the levels.  (Edition 1 really has some manipulatives that get used a couple of times and that is it….)

    Edition 2 uses more games, and specifies for you to play them more often in the lessons.

    Edition 2 level A breaks the lessons up more – in Level A ed 1, the lessons were to take 2 lesson sessions… in ed 2 they are to take 1 lesson (but there are more of them)

    Edition 2 level A seems to have a lot more worksheets – still few compared to most programs.

    Edition 2 uses ideas from further research by Dr. Cotter  

     

    Have you seen the information on the RS website – including the webinar or video on choosing edition 1 or 2?

    pangit
    Participant

    From the HSLDA website:

    “Brave members of Congress are actually pushing to eliminate all federal funding for the Common Core State Standards Initiative. And we need your urgent phone calls to help make this happen.”

    Here is a link to the whole article and how you can help: http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/2014/201404010.asp?elq=0540cb125ba44c298645cf3120871f2f&elqCampaignId=444

    There is a link at the end of the article for their documentary about the common core.

    Sara B.
    Participant

    I actually stopped using RS 1st ed. because it was too much like CC math for me to be comfortable with. I went all the way back to Ray’s Mathematics.

    In addition to hsroadmap linked above, if you’re on FB, check out The Educational Freedom Coalition. Best group on the ‘net for all things CC.

    marmiemama
    Participant

    I was shocked to learn that Math U See is CC aligned. Does anyone know if Teaching Textbooks has plans to change in the future. Of course there’s no guarantee of anything. Very bummed about this.

    sheraz
    Participant

    When I talked to Math U See about the differences, they said all that they did to align was add an extra page of word problems to the lessons in the workbook. If I didn’t want to do it, I didn’t need to.  They said the textbook changed to be more detailed and clear on how to do something – something that Mr. Demme was planning anyway. The DVDs did not change at all.

    We are just starting to hear about Common Core, but it has been around for at least five years and probably more. In some ways, the companies were placed in unsustainable positions over Common Core. Either they align somehow or they lose business. If they lose business, they end up getting rid of employees. That affects more families. I would guess that many of the curriculums that are choosing not to be CC aligned are not in the position of losing a lot of business due to their mostly homeschooling market. Others like Math U See are used by both public and homeschools, which makes it much more complicated for the company. And, of course, other companies completely embrace CC. 

    Having said that: I am disturbed by CC and the national tracking system of each child. Very alarming to me both as a parent and citizen!

    crazy4boys
    Participant

    Here is an older discussion about Common Core, in particular math…I think it very helpful in making decisions.

    http://simplycharlottemason.com/scmforum/topic/math-and-the-common-core-state-standards

    Doug Smith
    Keymaster

    I would like to urge a bit of caution when looking at this issue because there is a lot of hype and fear going around right now. Unfortunately, there are those who stand to gain from fear mongering, which makes matters worse.

    First. let me be clear that SCM’s materials are not CC aligned and we have no intentions of making them so. In fact, some of the CC standards are incompatible with the order in which Charlotte Mason built layers of skills and concepts upon one another.

    It’s important to separate CC’s standards from the political wrangling and things that have been tacked on in implementation. The CC standards basically say what particular topics and skills a child should know by each grade level. CC does not specify particular textbooks or curriculum and it does not say anything about data mining or tracking children. Now, because of the politics of implementation, those other things are being tacked on and we all sort of refer to CC as the whole package.

    But the difference between standards and implementation shenanigans becomes important when evaluating a curriculum or publisher. Let’s look at Math-U-See as an example.

    Before CC, MUS was a solid math program that exceeded any government standards. CC came along and MUS added a couple enrichment pages with extra practice to each chapter. Now MUS is a solid math program that still exceeds government standards.

    Notice what’s not there. They did not change the vast majority of the content. They did not change how MUS works as a mastery-based curriculum. They did not dumb down the materials. They did not fill the books with indoctrination. They did not endorse data mining, tracking our children, or a federal takeover of local education standards.

    It would be more accurate to say that CC aligned with MUS, but didn’t go far enough. Smile

    Yet those simple changes have made MUS evil incarnate in the eyes of some. Seriously, they’ve had their Christian salvation questioned over this—extra practice problems! That’s sad.

    So how should we proceed?

    1. Educate yourself. There are currently CC standards for math and language arts. Go read them and see what they actually contain. Figure out what you agree and don’t agree with and incorporate that into your decision making. Also find out what your particular state is doing with implementation and act accordingly, if needed.

    2. Take the time to research any curriculum’s changes or alignment and find out why rather than assume the all-evil worst.

    It’s possible for materials to be unintentionally aligned. For example, we’ve seen some good living books now sporting a CC aligned logo on the cover. It doesn’t stop being a good living book (assuming it’s not abridged or altered) but the publisher thinks the logo will help market the book to schools. 

    Back to the example of MUS, they have published exactly what they did and why near the end of their parents FAQ page. (It starts at the topic “Why is there a new discussion of state standards?”) They also have PDFs showing exactly what and where CC grade topics are covered in their materials. For example, here’s grade 2. Study those kinds of things and see if there are aspects you disagree with or not.

    In response to a recent Facebook question on CC, MUS explained that they cover most CC topics but are not fully aligned because they are not grade based. They also pointed out that the changes should make homeschool students better prepared for changes in standardized tests, where required.

    3. Give grace to homeschool publishers and don’t always trust the lists. If you look online, you’ll see that there are many lists of publisher and their stance on CC. We are on several of those lists as not supporting CC, which is good and accurate. But let me tell you how that sometimes works behind the scenes.

    We’ve been contacted several times for our official stance on CC. In some cases, we were asked open-ended questions. Someone took what we said and decided which list to put us on and our comments were not included with our listing. That’s an error-prone process that could easily put good publishers on the “bad list” through simple misunderstandings.

    I’ve heard small homeschool publishers express how they’re walking on egg shells with concern that they might unintentionally be aligned or have a comment misunderstood, and that it would cost them their entire livelihood.

     

    I know that was a bit of a long rant, but there is so much at stake for our families that I thought it worth the time to dig into the details. I hope it was helpful.

    amyjane
    Participant

    Doug that was very helpful for me.  This morning I watched the documentary HSLDA put out “building machines” It was very informative for me.  And one thing I realized was that the standards themselves aren’t so much the issue but how they are going about applying them.  I do not, however like that there is only one track for high school that claims to make you both college and career ready.  But that being said the video helped to ease some of my fears.  Not that I am not worried about the politics that is tacked on with them.  But that I don’t feel like my kids will be behind come high school.  I know that the methods we use with CM will not suffice for elementary age kids that were to test but honestly I would think that would have been true before CC existed.  I mean we don’t do grammar until 5th grade or older.  So your above post along with the video has helped me gain some proper perspective on what the issues are.  And while I wish the politics aspect wasn’t there and I will stand against it, I am no longer quite so worried about my kids not eventually meeting the core’s standards.  I hope all this makes sense.  I am still processing all I have watched and read today

    Amy

    Bookworm
    Participant

    *LOUD APPLAUSE*   Doug, thank you for this.  I wish I could give this to all the people I know who think that somehow, adding a page of optional problems at the end of a chapter suddenly makes a good program into the Devil.  Remember, people YOU ARE IN CHARGE and no materials are *perfect.*  All parents should look over curricula and decide how to implement it into their own families.  Just because something might or might not “align” with something we like doesn’t make it evil!!!!!  Good grief.  CC is stupid.  It is a bad idea.  It will hasten taking down our miserable school system.  We have to watch, as there are those who will try to apply it to us.  But we really don’t need to be flipping out over this!  There are starving people in the world.  We as homeschoolers are the best witness when we simply follow the Lord, produce good, intelligent human beings, and calmly say what we know to be true.  Pay attention.  Vote.  Educate your family.  Just like before.  CC is just one more in a long line of dumb ideas.  It will not be he last.  

    marmiemama
    Participant

    I just watched the video, too.  It wasn’t surprising to me but I’m still processing (ie. praying/deciding) on how I feel about using any curriculum that openly aligns with CC.  

    Thank you, Doug, for taking the time for such a thoughtful and informative post.  

    suzukimom
    Participant

    Great Discussion Doug!

     

    Just wanted to comment on RightStart.    

    Edition 1 was developed in 2001 – my understanding is that it fairly much covers (and exceeds) common core – but was developed before common core.  It was developed due to research by Dr. Cotter.   

    Edition 2 has recently been developed.  It was developed due to more reasearch by Dr. Cotter, and has been in the works for quite a while now.  It does meet and exceed common core.   My understanding, the main difference between Edition 2 and Edition 1 is in regards to the use of the manipulatives more, games more, the common ‘walls’ in edition 1 have been smoothed out, more metric, and some topics introduced earlier.

    Like MUS, in the homeschooling community each level isn’t assigned to specific grades.  (That said, it is easy to figure out what grade the same level is in the public school.)

    RightStart IS used in public schools (I don’t know how much) – so I’m sure that affects their decision.

    All that said – I think it is a fantastic program in teaching math.

     

    Choose a program based on how you like how a program lays out its material, how much you think you will enjoy teaching it, how much you think your kids might learn from it, the quality of the instruction, whether it fits your beliefs (itself), the cost, and things like that.    Why base it on if some checkmark on some list somewhere?    

    LindseyD
    Participant

    Applause for Doug! Thank you!

    I’ll be honest here: I’m not extremely familiar with CC, probably because I haven’t bothered with it since TX isn’t a CC state. In fact, I’ve followed the CC threads in the past, and this one today, and I was even texting missceegee earlier, wondering what all the hype is about. 

    With my limited knowledge, here’s what I can say about it. 

    I think it’s very foolish to discount or discredit curricula such as MUS or Right Start simply because they have taken steps to “align” w/ CC standards. As Doug truthfully pointed out, MUS is STILL exceeding CC standards and continues to be a quality program. It seems that to stop using a proven curricula, book, or other resource simply because it’s “CC aligned” is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water. What I am thankful for is that MUS DID add one extra page at the end of each lesson so that they CAN continue to be used in other venues besides homeschooling–public school, specifically. At least those PS children can STILL receive a quality math education! What if MUS had not added that one extra page and had been thrown out of PS? Then all those children would be receiving a far worse math education, and I think looking at it this way actually gives me even MORE respect for MUS as a company and a program, which we will continue to use because it works.

    I have not read over the CC standards for math or language arts, but let me ask this: what if CC mandates the reading of….oh, I don’t know…..Pride and Prejudice? Will you not read P&P because it’s “CC aligned”? Again, throwing the baby out with the bath water.

    And, thankfully, we all still have the right to choose which curricula and programs we buy for our children, but is it really making a statement to not purchase excellent materials simply because they might be CC-aligned? You can stand on principle all day long, but I doubt it’s really making a dent in the big picture.

    The very little I know about CC causes me to agree with Bookworm: it is stupid, and it will fail–as do almost all other gov’t mandated programs. I’m thankful I live in a state that has not yet adopted CC standards, but if we do, I’m going to be even more thankful that I homeschool, and that I STILL have control over the materials I allow in my home. There are millions of public schooled parents and children who do not have a choice.

    Blessings,

    Lindsey

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
  • The topic ‘Common core concerns’ is closed to new replies.