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co-op class problems, please help!
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So, I started this co-op class with great intentions…but I don’t know how well I can create the CM environment with the kiddos when I’m the only parent who is CM.
I wanted the kids to be able to appreciate good story, but they seemed to only make it through the shortest one I brought. They did make it through 2 poetry readings, but I have no idea if they even knew what I was I reading:)
We went outside and that was great, that seems to come natural for most kids, but what about the winter months??
Am I expecting too much from kids that may not school like we do to be able to do this one class this one way?? Does that sound rude or arrogant?? I don’t mean for it to, but I have spent alot of time and energy learning this method and helping my kids adjust (which has been great, btw) so they are used to alot of reading time and outdoor time coupled with drawing their narrations on blank paper (no more coloring books, unless it’s good quality).
We’ve only had one class so far so I may be jumping the gun about how to handle this…and I mean my own abilities, not their’s…does that make sense??
Thank you in advance for any thoughts and ideas…
I wanted to add that the age range is 4-8 and I have 15 kids. I do have a few moms to help me, so I’m not alone…also, I am glad that they made it through the book but I was hoping to add longer books. I thought about reading the longer books a little bit at time, like I would with my own kids, which would probably work. I guess this class was CM friendly in theory but maybe it’s in reality that I’m having a harder time.
thanks again:)
I think part of the problem may be the age range of the children that you have. Kids that are 4 years old have VERY different attention spans, than those that are 8. My own four year old can sit for quite a long period of time for stories, but perhaps that is because she is sitting in my lap with the book right in front of her, if she were sitting in front of a teacher where she couldn’t see the picture and where there was even the remotest possibility of distraction from another child then I doubt she would sit through the same length of a story. On the other hand, our church has a Children’s church has LOTS of little kids age 3-5 and they get them to all sit in separate chairs to listen to stories and sing, and I’ve always been impressed at the order in that class as I drop off and pick up my girls, I’m not sure the order of what’s being done and the length of time they take with each activity, but I do know it must be marginally significant because of what my girls are able to tell me about when the class is over.
It’ll probably get better the more the kids get to know you. If you are able to identify instigators then I would have moms sit near them so they can address any disruption issues immediately. I always find kids are better behaved if the “helpers” are among them as opposed to watching from the outskirts. If the kids are sitting on the floor, then the helpers should be sitting on the floor. If the kids are sitting in chairs, then the helpers should be sitting among them in chairs.
Don’t worry, it’ll get better!
Rebekah
Thanks for the ideas and encouragement. The age range I came up with was from my own kids’ ages (4 and 8).
I did think about splitting the kids up into 2 groups, maybe that was part of the problem. I have a roster with their ages and I should probably do it that way.
Add to all of this was the idea that I didn’t want what we used for supplies to be prepackage. Maybe I’m getting prepackaged and structure mixed up?!
Okay, I have to be honest about something else…I have a mom who is alternating with me in leading the teaching (I will not be in the class this coming Mon.), and we school quite differently in our own home schools. She’s pretty traditional and probably uses a packaged curriculum (I’m not saying that’s wrong, just that it’s different than mine). I didn’t want fill in the blank pages for whatever, or preprinted coloring pages to go along with the theme for the day/month, so I in my effort to keep the busywork out, I may have left out the structure. Does that make sense??
She’s open to using whatever format I have since she teaches another class and didn’t want to have to “think” about supplies/books, etc., so she’s leaving that to me. The problem is that I didn’t really have a “format,” I was going to read to the kiddos and go outside:) Sounds simple enough, but it seemed a little chaotic and that is not okay with me. She had a similar type of class last year and the kids seemed to listen to her direction pretty well. Maybe it’s me:(
As someone who is new to CM teaching of my own children, I have seen that certain parts of the methods require a lot more time and patience to get them to where I would like them to be. With all of them, the habit of attention has needed work, to varying degrees. After just a few weeks, they have all improved, but not all of them are right where I would like them to be with this.
Don’t give up on them. If it would be helpful for you (if you like concrete visuals), chart their progress for yourself. For example, note that in week 1, the group sat through 2 poetry readings and 1 short story. In week 2, they got through “x” and “x” and so on. You’ll see progress, but be sure to allow for possible setbacks during weeks close to the holidays, if it’s storming outside, if something changes in the group, etc. Don’t forget that Charlotte Mason recommended 20-minute lessons for your age group, and I think you ought to consider the poetry readings as one “lesson,” a short story or two as another “lesson,” perhaps a portion of a book as another “lesson,” and so on. You may need to keep them even shorter than that and add time as they progress. You can always have them draw (good as narration) what they just read about in between “lessons.”
As far as the 4-year olds are concerned (and maybe some of the 5-year olds), in our co-op, the moms usually bring quiet activities for the littles to do, so perhaps yours could do that as well. I would leave that as a judgment call for individual moms as to whether they want their 5-year olds to “practice” giving attention to the sessions. Our co-op leader usually brings some coloring pages related to the older kids’ work, and the younger ones can use those.
HTH,
Sue M.
Do you have the SCM scheduler? It has samples of CM’s OWN schedules for her schools and while HOW the children were being taught has little if any resemblance of teaching in typical classrooms today, she certainly was VERY structured in how each day went about… now each day had a different schedule, yet they were all scheduled. My children fall within your age ranges and we are very scheduled this year, going from one subject to the next, trying not to have a time overkill for any one TYPE of learning… meaning, we do not do one hour of me reading to them even if the subjects vary. So, I would suggest that poetry and any other reading not exceed 20 minutes in total for an hour long class, if your class is two hours, then you could do 20 minutes during another period of the class. I am not opposed to preprinted coloring pages, especially for very small children. We don’t typically do fill in the blanks on paper, but with my two children I will sometimes do them verbally if the questions aren’t too nitpicky. What would be better is to ask open-ended questions that encourage narration and allow several children to answer – this could stretch out your story time by another 10 minutes, and perhaps alternate, by one week allowing the children to draw their narration (or for younger ones giving them the option to color a relevant coloring page) and then the next week encouraging narration through answering open ended questions. Thirty minutes to play outside is probably a refreshing time for kids attending a co-op where most other classes will be highly structured. But even with the outdoor time, you could gently suggest one week that during their outside time each child find something to share with the rest of the class this is smooth or something that is smaller than a tennis ball etc… – maynot work if there’s just a small playground, but they again you might be surprised what treasures they can uncover. If you remind us how long your class is, it will help to give ideas.
Rebekah
Thank you so much for this input…
Our class is one hour. I can’t say it starts promptly at 9am, but about 9 (some kids are early, some a smidge late).
We do our home school similar to your’s. When I read, or the kids read indepently, then the next lesson may be math or hands on science, etc. I try not to let too much time fall between lessons, but I don’t think it’s too choppy, either.
In my zeal to create a CM friendly class (with the addition of the traditional approach co-teacher) I may have gave the impression that I was against structure, ugh. I love structure and thrive on routinish type living, so I don’t quite know what happened or what is happening. I kind of feel silly now…the co-teacher has the impression that I lean to un-schooling, which I don’t, but I must have inadvertantly made that impression.
I have to go for now..
Well, I think your class ideas sound great!
I don’t have much to contribute except a few ideas for how to help the children learn to narrate after you have read, especially if this is a new skill for them.
One is the narration jar, mentioned under Young Children in this post: http://www.charlottemasonhelp.com/2009/07/creative-narration.html It seems that doing something creative, like a skit or drawing, will be more do-able with a group of children. My boys yesterday wanted to draw what they thought a certain character looked like in the chapter we had just read. I didn’t even realize this was a form of narration at first, but as they started comparing each other ideas, I realized it was!
The other idea is the narration cube: http://www.pennygardner.com/narrationcube.html This would be for the older kids in the group – I wouldn’t ask a 5 year old to tell me the “plot”.
Also don’t worry if they don’t seem to be “getting it”. It took my kids several weeks of reading poetry before they started to enjoy it and discuss it with me.
I also like the idea of giving them something to look for outside, at least at first. Once they discover the joy of exploring nature, you won’t need to direct them specifically, but for a time, it might be helpful to say “find fall leaves of many colors” to give them a focus other than just running (though just running might be good sometimes too).
Enjoy!
Joy
Thank you so much for you all of your ideas and encouragement…I am going to talk with my co-teacher this afternoon and get a format together that we can agree on. It is “my” class and she’ll do whatever I suggest, CM or otherwise, but she is the one leading every other week and I want her to have the freedom to do what she sees fit at times:)
I’ll talk to her about splitting the kids up (if that’s easier for her, which might not be), the drawings for narration (maybe coloring pages for the youngest kiddos), exploring outdoors for something specific, etc.
One of you wise ladies mentioned the fact that it took a while for you and your kids to develop into this type of learning style…and that has been true for us, too. I agree that you have to take it slowly and then you do reap the benefits (if you’re patient)…I think I thought that I could present this wonderful learning style and the kids be able to respond immediately…not fair on my part. I also think that I felt pressure from the “helper moms” watching me try to introduce my learning style and looking like an idiot doing it. I just wanted the kids to have an atmosphere of learning that was gentle and not filled with worksheets and spoon-fed learning. Plus, I wanted them to have fun, make friends and create great memories. I want for my own kids to get something that they would have received at home (that’s how our co-op works, you teach what and how you want, within reason, of course) with good books and outdoor time, drawing, poetry, etc. But, I can see that if it has taken us (who want to do it this way) time to develop into this wonderful method then it will take time for these sweet kiddos, too.
Also, I realize I’m only with them 1 hour a week and it’s not my job to convert them over to CM. That’s just silly and certainly not my intent, but because this is the way we school, and I’m the leader, I still want to do it the way that’s in line with how we school. Does that make sense??
Thanks again. I really do appreciate the time you have put into helping me:)
Hi my3boys,
I began a CM support group & co-op in Jan. 2009 and share a bit here of what we do for what it’s worth. We have 39 families and 100 kids participating in weekly classes w/ another 10 families & 30 kids joining for events/field trips, etc. This is double from last year and we are at capacity.
- 9:30 – 9:45 Assembly (Pledge, Hymn, Parable, Poetry, Prayer)
- Dismissal to first hour classes w/ teachers
- 9:45 – 10:45 1st Hour Classes
- 10:55 – 11:55 2nd Hour Classes
- return to Sanctuary for dismissal
We have the following classes
- nursery 0-2
- 2s & 3s Story Time Adventures (read a good book, have a go along activity, sing some songs, play outside)
- 4s & 5s Alphabet Adventures (similar but with Alphabet themes) & Game Time (playground and group games)
- 1st & 2nd Geography & Missions and Science is Cool (all hands on experiments)
- 3rd-8th – Jr. EMT taught by a paramedic/fireman dad – very hands on and practical
- 3rd-5th Apologia Botany (lots of the experiments & nature study; reading done at home)
- 6th – 8th Writer’s Workshop – very gentle writing class using games, poetry, and more to nurture these skills
- 9th – 12th Yearbook
- 9th – 12th Apologia Chemistry w/ hired teacher (this is a typical textbook class which is what our moms wanted to give the kids a taste of before college)
Now, the pre-k classes have short segments of events, but the other classes are 1 hour long. However, it isn’t typical lecture/drill/worksheet, but more discussion/narration and hands on stuff.
We go to the park after classes for lots of exercise & fresh air (when we can), we have monthly field trips and Mom Chat fellowship evenings as well as periodic gatherings. Last night I had 3rd-8th girls over to play with sculpey clay.
We don’t require all of our families to be CM homeschoolers, but we do state that we are a CM inspired group that supports CM style education. We aren’t interested in doing things that wouldn’t support the philosophy we’ve chosen.
This spring, we hosted Sonya from SCM for a 2 day seminar and in March 2011 we are hosting Jan Bloom for a 2 day seminar. I’m always looking for opportunities to help others learn about this type of education.
This is, of course, just what our group does, but maybe it can give you some ideas. This is the 5th year that I’ve been in a co-op or running this one and I’ve found it a bit like a jumbo jet. It takes a bit of work to get it up and running each year, but then it flies along pretty well on its own.
I think it sounds like you’ve got a good plan, but may just need a bit more structure to help control the larger group. It does take a few weeks to get into a good rhythm, so give yourself grace.
Blessings in your endeavor,
Christie
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