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Choosing math
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Is anyone using anything other than Math U See, Right Start or MEP? I am having a really difficult time choosing a math program for my two boys grades 2 & 5. They are coming from PS and therefore are used to a spirl approach. My older has asked to repeat a grade 4 program because he doesn’t feel he really understands what he’s doing (although his marks are above average — the last two tests he brought home were 100%). Cost is a factor, I am afraid, but my husband is releasing the purse strings a little more after the conference that we went to. He wants me to have the “tools for the job” 🙂
Has anyone used Miquon or Rod and Staff? Opinions? Advice? Math U See, though pricy, might be a good choice for my 2nd grader, but my older ds wanting to review multiplication, division, fractions, etc. I don’t want to spend two years on review with Gamma and Delta before moving on to Eplison.
Do I make any sense???
Thanks in advance!
You would not likely have to spend 2 years reviewing Gamma and Delta for your oldest. You could let him go at his own speed and just cover what he needed and it would work. And it would be reusable for your next son too. Sorry can’t help with the other programs, MUS is all I know!
I’m sure it would work, however it would mean buying two levels for him in one year, which is way more than I can afford!
You could check out Math Mammoth. The individual grade level topics are very affordable, and you could buy the ones you wanted to review before you went on to another program – or use math mammoth as your main curriculum. I am also looking at The Thinking Company’s Mathematical Reasoning books to combine with Math Mammoth for next year…grades 2 and 6 ( but the gr6 needs review on 4th and 5th grade math).
BTW I found starting my gr5 child in RightStart from several years of public school math to be a difficult transition. Gr2 would be easy, but this other was hard. I have gr5 right start materials to sell if you want them LOL. Great program, just not right for us. Wish I had started it early.
Hi, I’m new to this (or any) forum and CM. I happen to be a mathematician. I have taught in some capacity since 1991. I was homeschooled myself when it was definitely NOT popular! I also offered math classes in my home to local homeschoolers before we moved (and I had too many littles to do something so crazy! Before they were allowed in class, everyone had to attend Math Basic Training. This allowed me to determine their gaps. I was able to help some very committed parents and students (they did a lot of work) and bring them from an inability to do simple basic math to being able to go straight into college algebra and do well. But some of them did both algebra 1 and geometry with me in that one year. This was after I taught them the basics. I am a mother of 4 littles so far, ages 7 down to 7months. Funny thing is my preferred teaching is about pre-algebra through college calculus. I always preferred them to be able to sit still already. 🙂 LOL…I now am teaching my hyper dd7, and I chose Right Start. I love it. I love it as a mathematician…but it is also very well laid out for a mother who might or might not like math. I have recommended it to several friends. I have a definite stay away from curriculum based upon my reviews of it and my experience teaching the children who used it. But I won’t say unless asked. I don’t want to offend anyone using it. No it is not Math U See.
I was about to give my standard advice about teaching math that you can really use with almost any curriculum. But then I again didn’t want to hijack this thread I believe is how I have heard it put. I’m new to CM, I struggle with scheduling, follow through, and a million other things that I beg God daily to help me with…so though I have had very good success in teaching math. I by no means what to butt in and let anyone think that I know it all. Because the Lord knows I struggle daily with everything else!
God Bless,
Joanna
suzukimom
Should I post here or start a new thread? I have no idea of the proper etiquette!
4myboys
I agree with Gem about transitioning into RightStart…mostly becuase of terminology and some early differences that could make it a bit tedious to get up to speed…not impossible mind you but it would take some effort to figure out what was missing…
I think you could either post here or start a new thread… the topic was “Choosing Math” and it definitely fits into that… But it is up to you…
I’d like to know, too, joannarammell, as I’m in the market for a new math program myself. I’d hate to make a mistake in choosing….. While I’m leaning toward MUS, I am not fully convinced that’s what I want yet and am considering several others. We’ve been through 2 different programs with my oldest (finishing up 2nd grade now), and I’m really getting tired of switching, kwim?
4myboys — We used Rod and Staff grade 3 this past year and my dd8 made great improvements in her basic fact recall. She already had a good understanding of concepts, but struggled with memorizing the facts. We used MUS Alpha the year before, and I was considering buying Beta to follow up, even though I was not really pleased with her progress. My daughter said she wanted to try something different, so I purchased a used 3rd grade Rod and Staff set very cheaply to try, and it worked. I received the 4th grade set a few days ago and really like the looks of it. It is designed to encourage more independent study.
I do think that Rod and Staff grade 3 is a little “behind” (in terms of scope and sequence) other programs, but, for us, it was what dd needed. Your 2nd grader could possibly be ready for grade 3 or might progress quickly through grade 2. I let my dd write in the book instead of copying it onto paper to make it easier for her to focus on the math and not worry about copying the problems. I also did not assign all the problems for every lesson. Most of the lessons she completed half of the problems, plus some of the oral work that is in the teachers edition.
Overall, we like Rod and Staff math. It is affordabe (often available used) and simple to use. There is sufficient review of concepts throughout. Most importantly, it worked for us. If you have more specific questions about it, ask me… I have grades 3 and 4 right now, and grade 2 is on the way for my dd6. I hope to have it to look through within the next few days and would be more than happy to answer specific questions about the sets I have.
Robin
As I have four littles, a sick nursing 7mo old and a potty training 2 year old. This might have to be taken in steps. I had a bit more time today because two of the children had to go out of town to a doctor appt. My dh was kind enough to take them. But I am also in the process of purging our house of twaddle! YEAH!
Here we go. I would call this Straight Talk Math Advice.
My advice to mothers –homeschooling and otherwise is always the same. Spiral without mastery is useless. One must understand and master the basics in good and decent order before moving on. i.e. Make sure the child actually understands and can actually do the basics in many different ways, upside down and backwards! –in regular equation form, in WORD problems, with manipulatives and (as they get older) without.
Make sure he can do it without a calculator. A calculator should be a tool, not a crutch. I only allow calculators way after mastery has been proven and proven and proven. Then I allow it as a tool. But in algebra a calculator that does fractions for you should be disallowed…(graphing calculator expections possible after mastery) as you need them to show their work so you can see where they have problems. NEW idea for some, it is possible to get the right answer to a problem but get a wrong answer to the same kind of problem later…because the method was WRONG and gave you the right answer to that first problem by accident. The answer in math is like the icing on a cake. The real cake or the real meat is the why. Another way of thinking about it is if you let the child skip showing the work now with the simple problems he can hold in his head, you will be powerless to help him with the more and more difficult (and much longer) problems that are imppossible to hold in one’s head. And a calculator that does fractions for you in grade school really hinders mastery. Practice makes mastery. Now, I don’t mean that you must make the child do 100 problems all of the same repetitious kind. That would be twaddle in math. But I do mean that he or she understands the basics from school year to school year. Make sure the concept of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division are understood…use good manipulatives. Do this BEFORE going on to teach fractions, decimals, and percents. And though some hate to hear it…MEMORIZE those multiplication tables from 0x0=0 to 12X12=144. And I mean really memorize…my test for them is simple. I make a grid with all of the problems mixed up (I make several so there will be no just memorizing the order of numbers in subsequent evaluations). I then sit them down with no distractions. I keep an eye on them. If they are counting with fingers or figuring on the side, they still haven’t memorized them. If they take a long time at a problem–they are probably adding in their head. It is great to understand the relationship of addition and multiplication…even vital. But when I need factors for a problem in algebra…I don’t need to sit there and try to add my way through basic multiplication.
The math program that I always say stay as far away from as possible is Saxon. It does not lend itself to the above referenced mastery. In fact, I studied the algebra book…and was very disappointed to see that there were actual concepts presented (taught) and not even one practice problem offered until DAYS later. It jumps about a quite a bit. It is written for the comfort of the parent. It seems easy to the parents. But the students that I taught had all used it. They couldn’t divide–some even with a calculator! I had some telling me that they were ready for algebra 2 yet adding, multiplying, and dividing fractions was not an ability they had. Decimals seemed out of reach. It was a telling testiment to the lack of mastery written into the program. I will say one thing here, I met one student in all my years of teaching that seemed to have mastered math using Saxon. His dad was an architect that worked diligently with his son. I pray that if you are using Saxon you will not be offended by this opinion. Watch for mastery!
I will talk about fractions and possible ways of reaching mastery tomorrow if you want. My family is back. Gotta go. God Bless.
Joanna
Thank you very much for your insight, Joanna. We used a spiral approach (Alpha-Omega) in 1st grade, and I knew she was not getting the mastery. So we switched to a more hands-on but still workbook-y mastery approach (BJU)- and while she does get it and is mastering the how and why underneath, it is still too much workbook and not enough real meat (not to mention it skips some very important parts of place value that even I had never known (and I love math, btw)! Once I found that out, and retaught those, we were on our way again. I see she is teaching herself multiplication before we even get there in the book. In your opinion, is that a sign that she is understanding the how and why behind it? She gets the grouping with manipulatives and without, and that is just using real life stuff, no book work yet.
I like the look of Right Start, but I struggle with how much hands-on there seems to be, and the different way of teaching counting, etc. It looked really confusing to me, and way too much work for me (I have 4 children, and 1 is a toddler, so 2, possibly 3, would be using this next year). Since you are using Right Start with your 7yo, how long does it take to do a lesson each day? And what kinds of activities are typical? OK, I guess anyone using Right Start can answer that question.
For the past 3 or 4 years we’ve used Living Math. As in I taught my kids all concepts from counting to division by playing games or applying it to real life stuff. It took time and planning but wasn’t terribly difficult or hard. This year, for the first year in many, we’re using a curriculum. Teaching Textbooks.
There are mixed opinions on this curriculum, but I know of many people who used this all they way through highschool and did well. For us, it fit our needs and we chose it. Both of my children are working above grade level and doing very well. 😀 I’m happy with it, but it doesn’t start before Grade 3 as far as I know. It’s also very student oriented.
I tend to hang near the child when they are using it, but I will say that it’s not intended to be that way. In other words you could do anything while your child did/does math. I prefer to stay near and know what’s going on. 😀
@ Joannarammell — Thanks for the advice! I know a friend of mine is currently using Saxon, and I initially entertained the idea when I started thinking about homeschool. If I had my druthers I would go with Math U See, and maybe if I can get most of it second hand I will be able to afford it. I see that they have a placement test on line, so that would help me know which level(s) to get. It sounds like Right Start might be frustrating to switch to at nearly 11 years old coming from the PS spiral approach. It sounds like the ideal program starting from day one, though.
You did mention not doing decimals or fractions until the basic operations are mastered. Can anyone tell me: does MUS teach these earlier or not until Epsilon?
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