Charlotte Mason’s Living Math: A Guided Journey DVD”

I would also like to ask a few follow up questions.  I just watched the DVD last night and so many things clicked into place for me! The DVD truly helped me see the overall progression and course of the lessons and how they build upon one another- something I wasn’t quite able to grasp fully just reading the book. For the first time now I am excited about working on math with my daughter.

However, I do have a few questions:

1) I am confused by how far to take the number lessons.  At first Richele indicated we would do the basic number lesson for numbers 1-100, but then at 10 we start using money, and then after that the bundles- it seemed like the structure of the earlier lessons was out.  I couldn’t tell. In other words- how does a lesson look for say the number 34 or what about 58, for example?

2) I was confused when the addition tables were introduced, if I remember correctly, at the beginning of the second year.  I don’t understand what new concept is being taught here. It seems like the mental problems are the same as when we worked through each number earlier. What am I missing?

3) Finally, how do I get started with my daughter when she already has some math under her belt?  She clearly understands 1-9 and its sums. We’ve already done quite a bit of work with money. Does CM even teach skip counting? Or does that discovery happen naturally through the course of the lessons? It seems like all the books and checklists include- so I have felt the need to teach it! lol

Thank you for your insight and advice on these questions.

Lauren

Hi Lauren!  I’m glad you are excited to guide your daughter in math.  Per your questions:

Numbers, 1-100, would take the first year in Charlotte’s schools.  Remember, this was a time of exploration, investigation, and building a comfort with numbers.  While the child has added, subtracted, and even brushed into multiplication and division during her work with addition and subtraction, the formal learning of the “four rules and tables” didn’t take place in her schools until the child’s second year of arithmetic.  There are some important ideas formally introduced at this time that they may connect with from that first year of Numbers.  Tables were not constructed or committed to memory until that second year though.  Addition and subtraction are found on p. 29 and multiplication/division begins on p.35.

This first year is also when a child learns the idea of place value and learns notation (how we write the digits 0-9 and then arrange them for the larger numbers).  So, at the number “10” we will be formally introducing money into the lessons and also the ideas of units and ten bundles.  We can’t go further into our investigation of number without them.  They will also be the concrete tools or manipulatives used as it would be unwieldy to add say, 27 pennies and 24 pennies, but two dimes and seven pennies are easily added to 2 dimes and four dimes (or, if we are using craftsticks:  two ten bundles and seven units added to two ten bundles and four units) with the units being bundled into a ten or changed for a dime and the remaining unit kept to the right.

In general, the lessons for 34 and 58 would look primarily the same as your initial numbers lessons with a few exceptions (starting at page 26, point 17 in the handbook:

Your child won’t be pointing out 34 of some thing in the room.  By the number 11, she has most likely grasped that these symbols express ideas.

When working with ten bundles/dimes the child should always placed those to the left and the units/pennies to the right to emphasize the idea of place value.

See if the child can tell which number is coming next to see if they have grasped the idea of where it will occur in relationship to other numbers.

30-100 are taken in sets of ten.  Each set will take approximately 7-10 days.  They follow the same pattern of learning the symbol for the idea, learning how to write it, working with it with the aid of manipulatives, counting, and reviewing numbers already learned.

Counting was an important part in CM numbers lessons.   Skip counting does take place during this time.  To give you an idea of how it would look, let’s take the lesson on number eight.  My child has learned the symbol “8”, written it, worked problems using manipulatives, and now will I will ask my child to:

-Count out eight beads.

– Count them frontward and back.

-Arrange the beads in groups of two.

-Count them in two’s.

-Arrange them in groups of four.

-Count them in groups of four.

-Count them again forward and backward.

Depending on time remaining (remember, these lessons are only 20 minutes long) my child will –during this lesson or the next– work some problems without manipulatives and also review numbers already explored.  Writing is used sparingly but before going on to the next number, a problem involving its use was done orally and then written out in the math notebook.

Does this make sense?  As far as where to place your child, I would take her just a bit further back than you think she should be, seeing if she has truly grasped the idea or is just working mechanically.  Sometimes using the concrete object will open the idea up.  Or it may be the act of making ten bundles and setting them to the left of the units that helps her make the connection of each number having its own place.

You are right, Sonya printed the grid paper.  We’ll ask her if she made it from an online template or on her own via Word or the like.

Best,

Richele

Thanks to you both for responding.  Richele, if you do not mind I have one final question/clarification to ask of you that I believe is the source of my confusion when it comes to numbers 30-100.  It’s taken me a few days to re-read and review materials to finally pinpoint the source of my confusion 🙂

I referenced your book, specifically on page 28, and then skimmed all of Ray’s arithmetic and still did not find specific examples of addition and subtraction for numbers 30-100. Basically- will I be asking my daughter to add two 2-digit numbers?  I noticed in your first reply to my question you mentioned adding 27 to 24- but I want to make sure I am understanding correctly! When I get up to the 50-set, for example, is it unreasonable for me to ask her to add 30 to 25 to make 55? Or are we sticking with adding single digit numbers to the larger number?

Thank you!!

Lauren

I would like to ask another follow up question if that’s alright.  We have progressed through our first semester basing our lessons on the CM approach as outline in the Living Math book and DVD by Richele.  We’ve enjoyed our lessons and my daughter loves working with the bundles!

If I understand correctly, though, I do need to cover topics like measurement and weights as well. I can’t find anywhere that explains CM’s approach to these topics as well.

Thank you.

Lauren

A few posts ago you discussed numbers 30-50. When you got to 50 in first grade would you do an addition problem with regrouping such as

I had  27 cars and then received 7 more for Christmas. How many do I have now?

Or

I am 36″ tall and little sister is 18″ tall. How tall would we be if she stood on my head?

Also did Charlotte ever discuss mental math strategies with her students. Not necessarily forcing them to use them but suggesting them to see what worked best for each student. For example in your head add 36+18 as 30+10 and 8+2+4 another way is to visualize the algorithm etc… Perhaps with older? Students?

Also how do you teach adding early on with objects? Counting all, counting on, visualizing 5s like right start?

I have been using right start a and have mostly liked it but I do like to go on my own and have found it unwieldy at times and am thinking of going to rays/ stayer upmyer and Charlotte’s scope and sequence. I am a teacher by training who is very suspicious of common core but also personally benifited from some of the math thinking strategies associated with it… I want my kids to like and truly understand math in a way I never did till my math education class in college (I actually enjoyed long division in bases other than 10…)

Hello Roslyn,

Good questions.  Yes, Charlotte Mason’s methods included those problems of an interesting nature.  The lessons were lively and engaging without the use of games.

I am aware of Visualization in RightStart, which is based on groups of fives.  It is not a part of Charlotte Mason’s living teaching of math and, in fact, counting is considered quite important in part due to that hallmark of  a CM education, the unfolding of ideas in a child’s mind.  For example, two ideas counting imparts is 1) the idea of “a series of symbols denoting a series of quantities whose magnitudes continue to grow greater” and 2)the idea of an order of things.

In CM maths, due to the work students are engaged in, they may in fact discover themselves without being taught some of the thinking strategies I believe you are speaking of, such as adding in tens.  The abacus is not something used in Mason’s maths.  She disdained contrived manipulatives and her use of concrete objects allowed the child to prove the validity of math facts and the reason for the processes used, thus laying the groundwork for mathematics.  They were a means to an end however and done away with before a child could grow bored with them.  Children were encouraged to discard the concrete by working with imaginary objects (imaginary beans or sheep) before advancing to the abstract but an abacus was never kept in one’s head.

My view is that the underlying methods of CM maths, which rest firmly upon her 20 Principles, along with its overarching philosophy differs greatly from RightStart. You may want to do a side-by-side comparison to reach your own opinion though.

You may read an impartial review of  “Charlotte Mason’s Living Math:  A Guided Journey” at Cathy Duffy Reviews and I believe it will answer many of your questions.  There are also numerous sample pages and video clips from the book and dvd series found in the bookstore here at SCM that will also give you a look inside Miss Mason’s methods and philosophy regarding mathematics.

Warmly,

Richele

Hi Richele…My youngest of 5 has dyslexia.  He will be 9 in March.  He is progressing fabulously with All About Reading, enjoys reading, desires to write comics and stories, and is doing very well with his attempts at spelling.  It’s his frustration with the entire world of mathematics that is the source of his greatest difficulties and angst.  We’ve tried many programs but we always hit a wall when we come across a concept he can’t grasp. I feel my focus should be helping him to find a way to help him with addition and subtraction fact recall and comprehension, simple fractions, and time before we can progress to multiplication, rounding, etc.  I would be overjoyed if he could begin to enjoy math like he is loving reading now. I’m wondering if this math program is what I’m looking for to help with his dyscalcula.

Thank you, Richele, for your wise and kind words. My son and I were talking about math this morning and I was telling him we’ll keep trying different things till we find what works for him. He said with a big sigh,  “I wish I could just count sticks for math.”

Out of the mouth of babes…