Busy, uninterested soon to be 7 yr old:) CM or not?

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  • amama5
    Participant

    I posted about my wiggly, super hands-on 6 yr old a while back about Kindergarten/early years for him, and I’m posting again as he’ll be 7 this year and required in our state to start formal schooling.  We are also required to have 1000 hrs, and I don’t think I can count all his hours of advanced lego building:)

    He’s bright and learns quickly but loathes structure, including any sort/type of game.  He can read short easy books and knows his doubles/adding to 10/skip counting, etc.  I can only think of two SCM books he’s wanted to sit in on to listen, and it was only for a little while.  His handwriting isn’t great and it’s his least favorite thing to do (because it involves really sitting still:)  He doesn’t have ADHD, he’s just a busy kid that doesn’t like structure and he has two siblings like that but they adapted better than he has earlier to schooling.  I do feel however, that he is a bit behind mentally where the others were for first grade and just wonder if I’m just having too low of expectations for him since I want him to not hate school time?

    I don’t know why but I’m thinking CM methods might not be best for him, even though I’ve used them with our first four children that have very different personalities.  I know they are short lessons, but to a child that can’t stand school they probably don’t seem to have an endpoint that he can see as much as a workbook would.

    I chose CM methods (even though they are the complete opposite of the way I was taught and am comfortable with) because I wanted my kids to love learning.  He isn’t going to love learning no matter what I do right now, and I don’t want to push him too hard, but he does need to learn, but it’s going to require some consequences.  We had to have long chats the other day about his attitude when I ask him to sit and learn to write his letters.

    I guess I’m just asking how much more you require of a 7 yr old than 6 yr old, and keeping in mind our state requirements?  He’s a loving, fun little boy and I don’t want to squelch him.

    I also have a three year old who is very challenging, and a daughter with a math disability, and a son with lots of Pre-Algebra questions:) so I’m with other kids a lot of the morning too, so I can’t do everything with him all the way, so workbooks would be easier than what I’ve done with the others.  I also have no idea what math would be appropriate, I have kids in MUS, CLE, and Teaching Textbooks and can’t imagine him doing any of them, or any other “game based” math.

    Thoughts?  Thank you

    beccawalker2000
    Participant

    Are there books that he does enjoy listening to your read? I’m finding that as long as I choose books that capture my boys’ attention, they will ask for chapter after chapter of reading. Also, I would definitely make sure that during any reading time, you allow him to move around (within reason of course, since he has to be able to hear you!) But it would be a perfect time for him to build his legos while you read some short science, history, or literature to him.
    I have found with my squirmy 6 year old, that the SHORT lessons of Delightful Handwriting are perfect for him. He can do it in 5 minutes and is excelling in his neatness. Even enjoying it!!
    I would say the same for math…keep it simple, but moving forward, with short lessons.
    As far as counting hours, I don’t have to do that in my state, so I have no personal experience, but I know many moms who count EVERYTHING as school, especially in those young years, in order to make the hours. Chore time, time with you outside or in the kitchen, field trips, co op time, etc, etc. Even listening to an audio book in the car can be counted for whichever subject that would fall under.
    Also, just something that my mom keeps encouraging me to remember is that at 7 (1st-3rd grade) all the focus needs to be on learning to read, basic math, and learning to write well. Of course with CM you’ll want to start encouraging him to narrate more and more. But it can be simply and short and still effective.
    And I don’t really know if any of this will be a help, but I thought I’d share my first thoughts that I would give one of my own friends trying to school an active 7 year old. 🙂

    PS-My second son was a lot like this, and it did take lots of training, and re-training, to get him to understand that as much as he would rather be outside, he would have to learn to also sit and do enough school to be making forward progress. Today he is almost 9, finally reading chapter books of his own volition, and says handwriting is his favorite subject. (WHAT!! HOW did that happen??!!??)
    I can only say that in my experience CM has actually helped my boys learn more and relax in our homeschool because of the interesting books (rather than boring, pointless workbooks) and short lessons.  Mine became very adverse to workbooks, except for the Math U See that we use, because they required them to actually sit longer, while with CM, they can be on the floor, or the couch, or quietly using their hands while I read to them. It’s been a blessing to us!

    Melanie32
    Participant

    I would let him jump rope or do jumping jacks or play hopscotch or jump on a trampoline or bounce on an exercise ball while reciting math facts. I would have him draw pictures or play with legos or do some sort of handicraft while I read high adventure stories aloud. I would have him narrate while you are on a bike ride or while he skatboards-whatever active thing he likes to do. I would do lots of nature study and science experiments. I would listen to audio books in the car. Those are all things that aren’t terribly formal but you can count as schooling hours.

    Honestly, I don’t understand your dilemma very well. If the issue is getting in schooling hours, I can’t possibly see how doing formal school would be a better fit for your active son. Are you leaning more towards unit studies that have more hands on components? You could always add in hands on activities. Do you think he would enjoy making his own lapbooks?

    I went back and saw where you are considering using formal workbooks because they might seem more doable to him. If it’s getting in your required hours that is the issue, can you imagine making him do hours worth of workbooks each day? Of course this might be a good option for math and handwriting. Are you having him practice his handwriting for long periods of time? Charlotte Mason recommended short handwriting lessons as well. We started out with one row of handwriting and slowly added to that as my children grew older.

    I think at 7 it’s time to learn to sit still and do a few more disciplined subjects. Doing 15 minutes of math and a few minutes of copywork each day shouldn’t be too much to ask of a 7 year old. Other CM subjects for a 7 year old are much less formal.

    caedmyn
    Participant

    I’d second the having him listen to audiobooks or read-alouds while playing with Legos.

    There can be an end in sight with CM lessons. You can use workbook-style math (we used Miquon, which is very hands-on), one page a day. We used Delightful Handwriting and at one new letter per day, and it was easy for my K’er with ADHD symptoms to know how much he needed to do. There’d be an end in sight with a short phonics/reading lesson too. You can always set a timer for a subject and tell him that when the timer goes off, he’s done with that subject. Kindergarten for us took 45-60 minutes. First grade is 60-75 minutes, split into a couple of sessions. My ADHD child’s attention span has definitely increased since the beginning of the year, just doing very short lessons and gradually increasing the length of them. I have no idea what all you can think of to creatively count for hours, but 5.5 hours of workbooks aren’t going to be very palatable for any 7 YO.

    amama5
    Participant

    Thank you for the replies.  I can tell I didn’t communicate very well (even though I wrote too much:)  I would never want a child doing 5.5 hrs of workbooks.  They would still be short lessons, so a page in each subject, just like short lessons in CM.

    My other kids loved reading independently by 7, so that’s one way I count extra hours for them, and can’t for him.  We also aren’t in the car very much for audio books, used to be but moved to the country so we stick to home for the most part.  I do count oral math that we do often, but it doesn’t add up that much.

    No, his handwriting only takes about 5 minutes or less.  I definitely believe in the short lessons, I’ve seen how well it works, and it’s motivating for them.

    We don’t really have a phonics program, we read together, he reads one to me and then I read a book to him.

    I also forgot to mention he’s loud!  He  is constantly singing/humming/making sound effects to EVERYTHING he does!  It would have to be an awesome audio book to get him to be quiet during lego building, or fort building, etc.  He even makes the sound effects as he’s drawing.

    He can sit still well though, for all I’ve mentioned, our kids sit with us through church for an hour or more, so it’s not a problem for him, but I was just having a hard time finding ways to help him enjoy the upcoming year instead of dreading it.

    Monica
    Participant

    I didn’t read all the responses, but do you live in an area where he can play outside independently?  My 10YO son was often outside for hours at a time when he was 6 and 7.  He would do a little phonics, a little math, a little copywork, etc. – and a LOT of time outside.

    Now that he’s a little older, he enjoys audiobooks, board games (esp. math-related ones), and challenging himself in math.

    I wouldn’t worry so much about the hours.  Teach him, allow him some freedom, and don’t stifle his curiosity or his independent learning.  He’s young.  He’ll get there!

    amama5
    Participant

    We have land out in the country so he can definitely play outside, but he doesn’t like to alone, which I am fine with too.  So he does go outside when his older brothers are done with school, but sometimes that’s until lunch or so.  He also gets fearful of things outside so will go through phases of not wanting to go out at all  (like getting stuck on the trampoline and not getting the zipper on the net undone, which did happen once, or bears coming while he’s out even though I assured him we don’t have bears here!)

    I do worry about the hours because I need to follow the law; if we didn’t have that requirement I don’t care about hours at all, or grades, etc.  We have certain cities in our state that are very anti-homeschooling and tend to report you out with kids during the day, and lots of nosy neighbors asking why my kids play outside during school hours, etc.  When we have appointments for myself or the children, we get grilled every time and almost each appointment I end up defending our choice to homeschool to a stranger.  There are plenty of visits from CPS to other families we’ve known, so unfortunately I have to keep a good record of his 1000 hrs per year:(  Moving to the country has helped a lot, but no one right around us homeschools.

     

    Monica
    Participant

    I honestly don’t know how you homeschool a 7YO for 1000 hours…unless you are very creative with how you count “hours”.  If you homeschooled him 180 days, which is a typical school year, that’s 5 1/2 hours a day!  Even if you homeschooled year-round (5 days a week, 48 weeks), it would still be more than 4 hours a day.

    So, for a child that age, I would count free-play as “hours” – playing outside, collecting bugs, riding bikes, building with Legos, doing puzzles, etc.

    So sorry that you have to deal with a community that is not homeschool friendly!

    beccawalker2000
    Participant

    That’s rough! I’m sorry! I’ll pray for you.

    There are many ideas out there for counting hours. You might do a search for homeschoolers or a co op in your area where you might find some support as well as help on filling in those hours. 🙂

    amama5
    Participant

    Thanks:)  I’ve had to be creative with my first four kiddos hours but it was actually really easy because they love reading, art or creative writing, educational board games, doing science experiments, cooking, etc and we went to the zoo a lot, and were in the car much more often.  Now that we’ve moved out to the country we don’t drive much at all, and don’t have zoo passes, and he doesn’t love reading by himself yet.  I’m thinking I’ll just have him narrate a sound effect story about what we read, or build it with legos, that will count for some hours.  He can also work on science with me and the chickens:)

    jawgee, I agree, it’s crazy to expect 1000 hrs for a 7 yr old, they are basing that off public school days, which we all know are full of transitions/down time/etc that aren’t actual teaching times.  A good portion have to be core hours too, so I can’t just count playing outside, or art, they need to fit in the core subjects.

    April
    Participant

    We don’t have 1000 hrs but we do have 875 hrs. The core subjects of reading, writing/handwriting, and math do not take that many hours a day here. I try not to count every little thing but I do add in some things that may help you.

    My kids have had a rest time after lunch that we will never change! It use to be for the babies naps now it is for Mama’s break and independent reading time. 🙂 Here once you are no longer sleeping or are big enough to be up for “rest time” you have to be looking at books. I use to have them look at books for part of it and then do something quietly but the something quietly would get loud so the policy now is only books. We have rest time for about an hour and a half. So that could be added to your time even if he isn’t reading fluently. My kids learn a lot looking at pictures of science books and it is getting them ready to read those books.

    You definitely can count some outside time as PE but maybe not all day. 😉

    We count family bible time and family read aloud time. (Including: bible story, poetry, science, history, fable, literature, picture book, or a mixture depending on the day.) This is done at lunch when everyone is eating and then right before bed with Daddy is a devotional and bible. So those add up to at least another hour maybe more like an hour and a half to two.

    For CM I definitely think that reading is a huge thing to count. It takes longer than workbooks and is definitely more enjoyable.

    So if you add up those hours it would be a total of:
    1.5 Rest time reading.
    1 PE outside time. (In a public school is this maybe two to three recesses besides there use to be PE when I went to school.)
    1.5 – 2 Read aloud with family (many subjects are covered here) & Bible
    1-2 hours of core work

    5 – 6 hours total

    Then if you have lego time, crafts, etc. those would just be extra hours.

    Hope this helps to see that you really could be getting this many hours without feeling like you count every little activity. To help you some of the core books could be workbooks. My kids like to have the independence to get their work done when they want to without waiting for me. Obviously the phonics and/or math would take more time from you in addition to maybe some independent time.

    Melanie32
    Participant

    jawgee, I agree, it’s crazy to expect 1000 hrs for a 7 yr old, they are basing that off public school days, which we all know are full of transitions/down time/etc that aren’t actual teaching times.  A good portion have to be core hours too, so I can’t just count playing outside, or art, they need to fit in the core subjects.

    Since we know that public school hours are full of wasted time and crowd management techniques, I would have absolutely no qualms counting those things as part of my homeschool.

    How do they require you to track hours? Since public schools include crowd control, waiting for other students to finish their work, listening to lectures (that they usually tune out) watching movies with substitute teachers, etc. towards school hours, it’s only fair that you can count those things as well. So your son may be done with math, but you can’t move on until all of your children are done with math so all of that time counts as math instruction. That’s how the public school does it. The same goes for other subjects as well.

    I would also play different learning audios for your son. Public schooled students do not get credit for the hours where they actually learn, only for the hours they are taught. In other words, even if he’s not listening, you can still count the time towards school hours. How many public schooled students are tuning their teachers out but still getting credit for being at school?

    I would really spend some time researching how other homeschoolers in your state work around this law while still respecting the needs of young children.

    amama5
    Participant

    The law is pretty vague when it comes to defining the hours, and moms interpret it differently.  I went to a Homeschooling 101 class years ago and the instructor said one hour is one actually hour of instruction, so outside exercise, things like that didn’t count.  I think that’s a bit too strict interpretation, so I don’t follow that but I do keep good records of things I count for hours.

    Aimee
    Participant

    Just an idea… I’ve heard of a mom who just considers 9 am – 2 pm “school hours” .  So basically that is their productive time but also includes lunch, snack, recess, waiting on other siblings etc…  That doesn’t sound as hard to me.  You could just have “educational” activities to give the 7 year old when waiting on someone else. Maybe even playdough or clay if he doesn’t like games. And I would definitely count some lego time !  If he stays in the vicinity when someone’s reading or listening to a book, it counts! Oh yeah, don’t forget life skills aka chores!

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