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Biblical Instruction for Discipline & Training
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I am so glad to see this post continued. I was afraid it had died out and I wanted to hear others thoughts. Misty my heart goes out to you. I read this thread earlier today and immediately a quote I read last summer popped into my head. God really taught me a hard and humbling lesson last summer that I am still in the process of processing. I have spent the last few hours thinking about whether or not to post this but I feel lead to so I am going to step out and share it.
When faced with an opportunity to practice a virtue, he (Brother Lawerence) prayed, “Lord I cannot do this unless Thou enablest me.”
And when he failed, he was quick to acknowledge, “I shall never do otherwise if You leave me to myself; it is You who must hinder my falling and mend what is amist.”
After doing that, Brother Lawrence “gave himself no further uneasiness about it.”
I read this quote in the book “Having a Mary Spirit” and it absolutely nailed me to the wall. Even as I read it again today I feel this inward tug in opposite directions. How could he be so confident in his standing before God to give himself no further uneasiness about his falling? On one hand there is complete freedom in this idea – that apart from God we do no good things. I believe it 100% and give God the glory for all that I am and all that my kids are that is good. On the other hand, however, I can’t help but think about all the Scriptures that tell me to train up a child, that no discipline is pleasant at the time but produces a harvest of peace for those who are trained by it, that folly is bound up in the heart of a child but the rod of discipline drives it away, fathers teach your children when you sit and lie down, when you walk along the way….you get the picture. We have a responsibility before God to teach and train our children in the way of the Lord. We can not let them go to themselves. So for such a long time I battled this inward struggle (if I am truly honest the battle is still ongoing) of I am not doing enough, I am not being consistent enough, if I slip up the they fail. Last summer a very dear mentor listened as I poured my heart out to her about these very struggles. The boys are good sometimes and terror others. If I could just do this or that better. She stopped me in mid sentence and said “Amy it seems to me that you need to remember that Jesus said “come to me all who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me for I am gentle and humble in heart and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” As we talked more she challenged me that I was caring a yoke that was not mine to carry – the burden of making my children holy. I know it sounds prideful but I did not trust God to make my children holy and I felt that if I didn’t do enough then they would not love Jesus. So as I continue for months wrestling through this hard pill I had just swallowed, through time in the word and time with godly women I found a balance. I am to pursue holiness both in my own life and in the lives of my children (by teaching them the Word of God and how to apply it to their lives) 100% simply because God tells me to. I do this knowing that God brings holiness to fruition 100%. There is no 50/50. And yes, God can make my children holy without my help (I am living proof of that), but if I don’t choose to simply obey Him and pursue holiness then I miss out on the joy of laboring alongside the creator of the world who does not need me, yet chooses to use me in my childrens life. So now when the kids are struggling in a particular area I don’t just write it off with an “oh God will make them holy.” Instead, I do spend extra time on this area – teaching and training and disciplining but I try hard to spend more time in prayer regarding this area because I know that God is going to make it “click”. And when I find myself getting anxious about a struggle in their life or mine I know that I need to come to Jesus because I am weary and burdened and I need to give him my yoke because it is not mine to carry.
Misty I don’t know if this is at all how you feel and if not I am sorry I took up such a large space to “throw up” my heart. I just sense your weariness and I spent the afternoon praying about whether to share this or not and I felt lead to open my heart.
Whatever it is you are feeling just remember that God loves your boys more than you could ever love them and He is committed to their growth more than you could ever be. They are made in His image and put on this earth to glorify their father in Heaven. As Jesus clearly talks in the Sermon on the Mount – it is ALWAYS a heart issue. What is in us comes out of us when we are shook or rattled. Ask God to show you what is going on. Do not grow weary in doing good – in due time you will reap a harvest..
Sorry this is so long.
Oh Amy, even though you were writing to Misty, I really needed to hear what you wrote thismorning – it was so timely. Thank you for being obediant to God.
May Jesus pour out His love on you today……
Rebekah, thank you for the godly tomatoes link. You mentioned that you can read the book on line but I can’t find it on the website. Could you direct me? Thanks so much.
Thank you THank you Thank you. That was so on! I did give it all to the Lord the other day and that is what brough me to the “you will be by my side” idea. If they are right with me they are less likely to do wrong. If they are right there for many days then being good will become more of a norm than a chance. I did start looking at the book on the web.
Is that the entire book? That was my question, I thought it might be just parts of it, if you have it could you tell me this.
God is doing healing in me and things are going better, though I have to be reminded often.
Sorry I can’t write more but I have to go tend to the bunch.
Misty
PS Thanks again. Those words were right on this morning.
Oh Amy what a good reminder to me also. I often need reminding that it isn’t my job to make my children HOLY.
God keeps reminding me that I need to pursue HIM and Holiness in my own life and that my children will learn more about holiness through watching me pursue it in my life rather then trying to “cram” it into their lives.
Thank You,
Shelly
Amy, Wow…I needed to ‘hear’ that. Honestly I think most of us should visit those words often. What a burden lifted to be reminded that our children’s holiness is not up to us (only God can do that), but that God chooses to invite us into the work He’s already doing. (I tend to get in the way more than I help sometimes; I guess that’s what Charlotte meant when she penned “…overmuch with the children; overmuch explaining, restraining, interfering, commanding, excusing…) Thanks for taking the time to share.
Heather, thank you for explaining how your husband gets involved. It sounds wonderful!! But, I think we have a couple of hurdles to jump before we get to the “private daily evaluation time”. Dh verbally supports home schooling and has from the beginning said that he thinks it is the right thing for our family. But it seems that he wants the end result of home schooling but doesn’t necessarily want to participate in the journey. I’d welcome any suggestions or comments from others who have gotten past this hurdle. I’ve prayed, invited him into the process, and lastly ‘reminded him of his responsibility’ (you can imagine how well that went over! LOL) …perhaps I need to just be patient and wait upon the Lord…
I appreciate all you ladies for being so encouraging. You are truly a blessing!!
mj
Misty and Heather – the whole book is on the website. If you look all the way on the top left corner of the site you’ll see “The Book” all the links below it are separate chapters in her book, so you really can print out the whole book from the website if you’re inclined – though I found it so helpful that I went ahead and bought the book after being able to put it to practice and see how well it worked. The dear lady that wrote the book didn’t do it to be published or for profit, but just because she had so many requests to do so, as I and many others still like to have it in print and know we won’t refer to it as often if it’s loose leaf. I find that it’s great to be able to refer people to this website because they don’t get “stuck” with a book that they don’t like, you can read everything she believes and suggests without having to buy a thing. As I said – it’s HARD. Sometimes the last place that I want my naughty child is right next to me, but it’s so much more effective than sending them off to their room and I think it helps those strong willed children see how valued and loved they are and also challenges their independent streak because you’re not letting them out of your sight.
Rebekah
And I would encourage EVERYONE to read the link under “specific problems” that says “irritation with children” – may not sound like what you need but it really is a wonderful exhortation of mothering.
Rebekah,
Thank you for the link. I didn’t get a chance earlier to go to the website but I did this morning…it is a wonderful resource. And yes, I am like you, I want a copy of the book so I can refer to often. Thank you.
Shelly
I just had to bring this topic up again, to thank Rebekah for recommending Raising Godly Tomatoes. I ordered the book in its entirety from the website and have been extremely blessed by it! There is remarkable change happening in our house due to “tomatoe-staking”. So often I’ve taken the “just go off and play so I can get things done” approach to parenting but now see the importance of having my dc at my side and…..WHAT A JOY! Thanks Rebekah!
Blessings,
Heather
Thank you for bringing this back up again! I have spent the last 2 days almost paralyzed by the feeling of hopelessness. What amyjane wrote, really spoke to me, today! I’ve just come out of an 18 month separation from my husband. He left us. During those months of going through a divorce, he walked away from the Lord. In May, God chose to do a miracle in our marriage, and we are back together (though living in separate states due to his being moved by the military). However, he is still not a Christian. His worldview is the complete opposite of mine. Before he left we had practiced Biblical discipline and training of our children similar to DON’T MAKE ME COUNT TO THREE. Since reuniting, I feel like I can’t discipline in that way. I have one son who is more of a trouble maker than the others. Over the weekend we had an issue that showed me that is a major heart issue going on with him. I became so weary of trying to weigh whom I serve, God or my husband, that I really became terribly depressed. What amyjane wrote was such a reminder to me that God is in the business of saving souls, not me. HE can work to save my children and create in them holiness despite my husband! I needed to hear that!
If any of you have any words of wisdom on how I would continue to discipline and train my children in holiness despite opposition from their father, I’m all ears!
I’m new to this forum (not CM or homeschooling) and have found it to be a great blessing!
Thank you!
Pollysoup – I just had to post to say hello and give you a cyber hug. My husband also is an unbeliever and I can so relate to your statement that you were trying to “weigh who you serve – God or my husband”. I struggle with this, as well, and I think even now God is stirring up my heart and getting me ready for some breaking free in this area. I’m just sitting back and trying to remain pliable and not be fearful. So many times that I think God is going to have to really do something drastic to get me where He wants me, I look back and He has done it so gently. He is so good and gentle with us.
As far as advice regarding how to handle discipline with the kids with your husband…..oh, boy…..I don’t know. I’m daily trying to figure that out, as well. I can speak for my situation and say that my husband is very, very receptive to me when I come to him in a gentle way (when I have sought God’s timing on the discussion and prayed over the situation) and explain to him what is going on inside my heart/head. In a situation similar to yours, I could see me going to my husband and saying something to the effect of the following:
“I’ve really been thinking about how we handle the training and discipline of our kids. I think I’ve taken over some of your leadership roles here and I’ve had a kind of hard-line attitude with discipline with the kids that you have just followed. Lately, I’m beginning to see that this isn’t working so well – we are losing our kids’ hearts and it makes me so sad that I’m the one that’s kind of “started this” method. Here are some ways that I’d like to change that and here’s why I believe it will work better, etc., etc. What do you think? You don’t have to answer me right now, but I’d love to talk to you more about it later when you’ve had time to think it over.”……..
So, this is an example of the kind of discussion I would have with my dh, because this would be a real example in our family. I’m not saying that this is what you would say, because your situation might be completely different – it might be that he is the one who has really taken the lead in disciplining and has gravitated towards a method in your home that you are not liking right now.
Other practical suggestions that I can think of right now are to let him take the lead when he’s dealing with the children and he’s there. This is a hard one for me still because I think in my heart that my ways are better, which isn’t necessarily right. So often, I kind of “take over” the training of our kids and then later get upset when I don’t think he’s helping me enough in this area — well, that’s because he’s so used to me jumping in to help fix the situation that I’ve trained him not to even get involved. Also, if he has unfairly treated the children, do not correct him in front of them. Wait, even until hours later after you’ve had a chance to calm down, and talk to him behind closed doors in a humble way. My husband usually responds very well when I approach him like this. It’s hard not to want to defend or save your kids if you think they’re getting yelled at and getting their feelings hurt. I know. But, I try to remind myself that I am not the perfect mom, either, and they get just as hurt when I lose my patience some days and say things in frustration and anger.
Mostly, just try to be an example of the kind of parent you want him to be (it is amazing how my husband kind of “follows” my temperament, if that makes sense, and picks up on ways that I’m training the children and starts to follow those ways) and above all, of course, pray and keep praying. I know it gets discouraging when you are praying for your husband’s eyes to be opened to God and what He’s done for him……but also, pray just over daily problems. I see so many situations in our family just come out beautifully when I pray over them. Probably the benefits are mostly that my heart is right and I can respond correctly in a given situation, even when it doesn’t go my way.
One more thing….God has really had to break me free of what our little family looks like compared to most homeschooling families. You know, ours just looks lots different than what an ideal Christian homeschooling family looks like. It took me two years to come to grips with this. I felt guilty every time I read how families handle t.v. and training their kids and eating and…..well, you name it – it just felt like we would never be able to match that standard. My options were either to nag my husband to death over the kids watching t.v. and therefore, lose my testimony with him (but win the battle I wanted) or to trust God and trust that, like the previous poster said, HE is the one that is going to save my kids. He is bigger than any statistic, any method, any formula. He is the One and He will not share His glory, either. He is fully aware of your and my situation with our husbands. Not only is He aware, but He has a plan for both of us and we are right smack dab in the center of His perfect plan for our families. He loves us and has tender feelings for where we are. He understands our sadness and He is not angry at us or wondering why our family isn’t the perfect Christian family. There is much, much grace and much love from Him to us.
We can do our part when our husbands aren’t around (I limit t.v. during the day much more when my husband is gone, but have to yield more than I’d like when he’s home – of course, there might be times when you have to steer them away from something that would actually be harmful to them).
Oh, goodness…..I am sorry for the rambling post. I pray that God will continue to work in your marriage and that you will feel His tenderness for you and that He will restore hope to you.
Oh Pollysoup and Abbaschild..I praise the Lord for your faithfulness and your perseverence. I am in awe of you and how the Lord is using you to reach the heart of your husband and your children.
PRAISE the Lord for the reconciliation that God has give to you Pollysoup..that is wonderful news. (I didn’t mean that to sound like a command, but I meant it as a “I am praising the LORD…). It is so good to hear of reconciliations..because right now several people I know are going through divorces and we have been praying for rec. but the parties at hand are not willing to follow in God’s ways. So I am so thankful that God has restored your marriage.
Have you guys read Created to be His Helpmeet by Debi Pearl..from ahhh I can’t think of the name of their ministry..ahh ohh..I got it.. No Greater Joy Ministries. I think it would be a wonderful, uplifting encouragement to you.
I will be praying for both of you and your precious families. Oh and I wanted to comment that I hope that you have found grace in the arms of our Lord about your family and how there is no “perfect christian homeschool family”..even the great examples that we have today are not perfect and God doesn’t call us to be “PCHF” just to follow him in what he has called our families to do..even if it doesn’t look like the rest around us.
Rejoice in the Lord,
Shelly
Shelly, Thanks so much for your sweet post. It means a lot to me. I have heard of that book. I have another resource that I bought soon after I was born again (Beloved Unbeliever, I think it is), but I am sure that I could benefit from another encouraging read from someone who is where I am – or has been there before. Thanks again.
Thank you, Abbachild and Shelly! Abbachild you gave me much to consider and pray about. Thank you!
Shelly, I’m still new on this journey of grace. What is hard is that he was a Christian all these years (he says he was pretending) and now he is not. So, we have lived that “perfect christian homeschool family” life. In fact, when he left, everyone was shocked because we seemed like the perfect family that people admired. Now, people do treat us differently. Before people would invite us over for fellowship and allow our children to play. This does not happen anymore. I guess I struggle with the isolation this has caused us. Maybe it’s more the judgement of others on myself and my children that I’m struggling with. In time, I’m sure God will settle my heart in this issue. I still am in awe of the way God moved to save our marriage. I am humbled by God’s extending a miracle to me. I need to find rest in HIS plan for us right now.
Shelly, I really would love to share our story with you if it would help your friends. We were within days of a divorce. It was a hate-filled, angry divorce! In short, through the process of legal mediation required by the state, the judge looked at us and told us “I don’t know why you are getting a divorce. Go figure this out over dinner.” For the first time in 2 years, we sat in the same room and talked without the threat of violence. God moved to open his heart to seek help. There is much more to this story that is truly awesome in how God worked but I don’t feel like this is the place to share it! We ended up going to a marriage intensive at http://www.nationalmarriage.com. Going into that week, there was so much anger and hatred built up (he had 26 pages of anger that he gave to the counselors) that he wouldn’t be in the same room with me. After 2 days of the intensive, God broke through the anger and restored our marriage. Most people that have walked this walk with us, are still in unbelief! If God can do it in our marriage, he can save ANY marriage. We had almost every possible divide to conquer (unfaithfulness, domestic violence, etc.) and God did it. We’re still walking the journey of healing in it’s early stages! But, God has given us healing! I highly recommend NIM!!! It’s a different approach that is simply amazing! If, it would help the people you know that are struggling in there marriage, we are open to share our story.
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