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Advice on teaching subjects together in middle/high school to different ages?
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I’m going to expose myself here. Naked Claire and her wacky CM style splashed out for the world to see. One of it’s ugly side effects out in the public for scrutiny. 😉 I need some advice …
My children do all lessons together except for math and any/all literature and foreign language. They use the same materials and text or spine. They are exposed to the same information. The only difference is in the expectation I have for their narration/work in each subject. They don’t get assignments above and beyond narration very often in our CM education. And even those are generally the same. It’s only the grading or expectation of work that changes between the two.
My older child from time to time comes to me in tears/anger saying that her education isn’t good enough because she’s using the same materials and being taught the same information as her younger sibling. She feels that they should not be doing the same subjects or using the same materials, or having the same exposure; that some how some things are grade specific and should only be done by that aged/leveled student.
I argued that the information available in the world is what it is, period. I explained that you will take what do from the information based on your ability, but that the information itself isn’t specific to any age/level. I explained the age of the person next to you as your taught is irrelevant. I tried to use college classes as an example. Comprehension, knowledge of, retention of, depth of understanding (and work produced from this) …. will all occur at the level the student finds themselves. Repeated exposure in our CM education will ensure rich layering of said information and thus a fantastic education.
Am I missing something?
I typically choose materials that are robust and rigorous. I typically choose texts and spines that are at the upper level for my older child and I do more hands on teaching or explanation with my younger child. It takes less energy than you’d imagine to keep the younger one not feeling overwhelmed while keeping the upper one challenged and I really enjoy it. I also don’t worry about my younger one getting things that are above level. I’ve always run this by my husband for his opinion since this is his area of expertise (his undergraduate and graduate work are in k-12 education) and he has assured me that as long as they are challenged and not overly challenged that this is fine. His big thing is to always be analyzing and tweaking. Because no one is staring off bored in to space and no one is under the table in a fetal position rocking, I think I am ok.
Could anyone offer some ideas or feedback? Thanks for any insight or thoughts.
wow. I have NO experience, because my people are all young (5th grade and younger). And my children are more likely to complain that they have too much work and I’m expecting too much of them!
As a former ps teacher, though, I’d wonder if perhaps your daughter is wanting more “alone” education. Does she want more books to read on her own (and of course, written narrations or elaborately drawn/etc. narrative type retellings)? Does she want to go off on her own and explore a side angle of some of the topics? Does she truly want MORE school work?
Or is she just complaining because she wants something to complain about? *L*
If she’s seriously asking for more in-depth work, I’d give her some. Nicely, of course…..and I’d try to stretch her. For example, if she’s talented in drawing, ask her to narrate by way of making a drawing in a medium she’s not familiar with…..or to do some research and link the artwork of the period to the cultural and political events going on. Or, if she’s talented in drawing, have her do something that doesn’t allow her to use her drawing talent – ask her to write a play (a period-correct play, using the idoms, expressions, etc. that were common in that time period). (Well, that might be too much for a high schooler, I don’t know……you know what I’m meaning, though, right?) (And I’m assuming your daughter is doing high school level work.)
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with doing most subjects together – but perhaps you could move your oldest daughter to a sort of “teacher’s assistant”. Can she work ahead and prepare some sort of activity or actually teach your younger students the next topic in history or science?
Just some ideas that popped into my head.
Well, I had a similar problem a couple of years ago with my 2 oldest… but they were 6 and 8 at the time. We were doing a family studies form of CM – which used the same resources for ‘grades 1-3’. We also had switched math programs and they placed at the same level – so almost everything was together.
Things seemed fine for quite a while…. but I started to realize that the 8yo was feeling stupid because his sister was doing the same work. My 6yo was also feeling stupid because it was harder for her to do the work than it was for the 8yo.
I ended up moving to CM that wasn’t family studies….
We do a lot together but I also have my kids read additional books at their own levels.
it sounds like your older child is getting these ideas from somewhere– school friends? I’d find a way to give her some subjects to do on her own or just give her more extra work. I know as homeschoolers we sometimes get too much family togetherness. Maybe she needs some space.
Nebby
Thanks Karen. I love your ideas and insight. You’ll be prepared for your kids! lol.
I think some of it is a sort of “teen angst” thing and possibly just a little sibling rivalry too. She’s needing to be bigger, better, older than him … and this is less about the education she’s getting with me.
I feel like we have all these great narration ideas (similar to the more advanced ones you mentioned) but wow do we ever just seem to stick with the ones we know through and through! The more elaborate, the more time. The more time, the less accomplished overall. It’s a maddening circle of schooling. 🙂
Claire, that is one of my problems: do I let my girls do something involved? Or do I keep pushing ahead. I admit to having trouble letting my girls get involved with narrations…..mostly because it gets in the way of getting our other subjects done. I guess I just need to loosen up a bit! *L*
Actually, since PA changed the law so that the only person who sees our portfolios is our evaluator, I’ve been giving the girls more time to create things and work on their passions (for one girl, it’s chickens…..lists and lists of chickens and how much the chickens will cost and on and on and on!). Previously, much of my stress was “we need something to put in the portfolio!!”
Nebby, those are good points. And yep! you guessed it … her other homeschooled friends are not schooling with their siblings and I think she’s come to equate it with not being “good enough” or “hard enough” if she does family lessons.
I’m going to make a better effort to give her extra assignments or more challenging narrations. I think, Karen, we will just have to focus more on quality than quantity so that they do get the time to explore or be pushed by narrations that are outside the box of tried and true.
Her reading is all different … for every subject so there is no problem there. I may do a lesson or read to them in our family lesson but in most core subjects they’ve got their own books going as well.
Hello Claire,
I have children younger than yours but your topic interested me…
I noticed on your last post above that your daughter reads different books for each subject than her younger brother. Therefore, I would say that they are studying the same topics, just at different levels. This seems reasonable. Have you tried explaining it in such a way to your daughter?
Could you give her a weekly list and allow her to read and write at her own pace, but require a group discussion on certain days? For instance, on Tuesday, be prepared to give an oral presentation (narration) on what you are learning in science. Each student, and yourself if you like, could share what he or she has learned or accomplished, maybe even some prepared visuals. You could do the same for history. This way you can continue the discussions that you like, but maybe she would feel a little more freedom. Just a thought…
I’m sorry this is challenging for you right now. My oldest is a daughter, and she tends towards drama and lording over her brother who is two years younger than she. So… I’m taking notes! 😉
Yes, Karen. Good points and I’ve explained that to her too. She’s cool. I didn’t mean to imply that she lords over her younger sibling either. She certainly does not. She’s very bright and a natural leader. These things are combining to make her question whether homeschooling is enough, whether her education stands up to scrutiny … along those lines. I should say too that these are “moments” and this is not something that happens daily or is really an issue. But when it popped up this time I thought I’d ask because I knew you guys would help me think it through more.
I guess that my real question was – Can I effectively homeschool two children of two different ages with the same main materials and use extras at their individual levels to fill in the gaps? – and the answer is yes. I hoped others did this too and I could hear more of their experiences just to glean some insight or tips.
I’m not planning to change our family style of “learning in community.” I don’t have the goal of my children moving to independent work. It’s just not something I see value in for our homeschool. I feel we gain more doing our lessons together even if there are challenges and even if it takes extra effort on my part to keep everyone challenged and thriving. My children are naturally very independent and I don’t see issues of them not being able to work independently academically either. They do that too within this way of doing CM that we have created.
Claire, it sounds like you know what you like and prefer for your homeschool and that it is working well. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it is my thought. However, if your daughter is wanting more autonomy (which she may not), then I would work toward meeting that need in some way while keeping the family togetherness you like. Just a thought.
Totally agree Christie. I have been paying more attention to the details … making sure her assignments are significantly different and challenge her too thus giving her autonomy in her work. We may be all hearing the same things, but we aren’t doing the same things with what we are hearing.
That’s a good clear explanation, Claire! I hope that your dd hears your heart and understands your perspective, too.
Claire, a bit off topic, but I want to thank you for sharing your homeschooling experiences here. Your homeschool always sounds calm and serene and peaceful, even when you present questions or concerns. This thread and another article I read recently prompted me to look back at “Morning Time” and combining more of our readings together. (We have gotten into the habit of checking things off and just wanting to “get through” school time. Ugh… Not what I want our homeschool to be.)
Today, we worked on most of our lessons together, with the exception of math and Language Arts (writing and phonics/reading practice). I was amazed at how alert and focused my children were while we were together and how focused they remained as they completed their individual work. We even finished our assigned work thirty minutes earlier than usual. This was even with multiple narrations and real discussion. I did not have to stop to correct behavior or remind anyone to pay attention beacuse they were paying attention and were interested to hear the books that otherwise may be read silently.
So, while we may not be combining middle school and high school right now, seeing your examples helped me return to what I pictured homeschool to be. Thank you!
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