Name: Spreading the Feast Gathering
Start: 2025-07-11T00:00:00-05:00
End: 2025-07-12T23:59:59-05:00
Location: LaGrange, KY

Tagged: Integrated Chemistry and Physics, Physical Science

This topic has 7 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 10 months ago by abidnginhim.

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)

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July 31, 2014 at 8:41 pm
memomo7
Participant
Hello Everyone!
I’m familiar with the usual science sequence for junior high/high school (i.e. General Science, Physical Science, upper high school courses, etc.), but I noticed on Dr Shormann’s site http://www.diveintomath.com/ICP he says that Physical Science has been renamed? and we should be teaching Integrated Chemistry & Physics instead? Help! Any advice, Bookworm?
Thanks!
August 1, 2014 at 12:20 pm
Bookworm
Participant
OK. First of all, notice the vagueness here. “Colleges” (which ones???) and “they”. Hmm. Also, note that he is trying to sell you something. This should raise an eyebrow.
Now. There are in fact integrated courses like this. There are even reasons why one would use them. But “colleges” have not suddenly tossed regular classes, renamed them, and made you need this one guy’s product.
All my sons have so far gotten into college with the standard biology-chemistry-physics standard that I took in high school all those years ago. I never did “physical science” in junior high–we just had “seventh-grade science” and “eighth-grade science” What you do in middle school really doesn’t matter a lot, as long as it prepares you for your high school courses. None of my sons needed an integrated class, and none of their colleges required such a class in college. What is important is at least 2-3 college prep lab science courses.
Now. Why might one take a class like this? Well, chemistry and physics are very related. (“Biology is really just chemistry, chemistry is really just physics, physics is really just math.” LOL) HOWEVER I have an issue with a class like this. You might lead a college to think you had had REAL chemistry plus real physics, when in fact this course needs as a math pre-req only pre-algebra. What kind of high school physics can you do with just pre-algebra? Not a lot. The first quarter of most college prep physics books requires trigonometry. This is a “dumbing down” of science content. Which is the last thing we need.
August 1, 2014 at 12:36 pm
Kayla
Participant
When I was in high school ou either took bio/chem/physics or integrated 1,2,3. Integrated was for the kids that just wanted to fill their credits and couldn’t do well in bio/chem/physics.
August 1, 2014 at 2:17 pm
memomo7
Participant
Thank you so much, Bookworm & Kayla. That’s pretty much what I thought, but sometimes you see something and then you second guess yourself. Arrgh! Anyway, my kids do enjoy the help they get from Dr Shormann’s DIVE CDs, but we’ll stick with our regular schedule for science. 🙂
Thanks again! LOVE.THIS.FORUM
August 1, 2014 at 7:43 pm
abidnginhim
Participant
My daughter will be a senior this fall and she has used DIVE Sciences during high school. She followed the typical science sequence starting with Apologia General and Physcial, followed by Biology using DIVE with a textbook, and then Chemistry also with DIVE and a BJU textbook. She is taking Physics now. She struggled a bit in the beginning of DIVE Biology when it started out with topics that were much more chemistry than biology and assumed she was familar with these concepts. She had to do a little studying on the side to keep up with the course. After taking chemistry she told me if she had had a little more chemistry BEORE biology it would have been helpful. She was also disappointed that she had to take biology, chemistry, and then physics when she would have prefered to start out with some physics because it was the science she was most interested in. (I now realize she didn’t have to do that.) So anyway, with my next child, I decided to use Integrated Chemistry and Physics from DIVE with a BJU text prior to starting the Biology, Chemistry, Physics sequence. No, it’s not a required course and I don’t really care what colleges are calling courses these days but for those who need or want it, I do think DIVE IPC can provide a good foundation before starting the DIVE science courses, and I wish I had used it with my dd instead of Apologia.
And, I realize that taking an ICP course like this is not the only way to prepare for high school science but my dd would have prefered it and since you mentioned your plans to continue using DIVE I wanted to mention it.
August 1, 2014 at 8:21 pm
Bookworm
Participant
The only catch with doing this, is the student will have a LOT more to relearn if they end up taking a physics that only uses pre-algebra. The switch to calc-based is pretty hard anyway; if you take physics EARLY in high school, most students will be forced to forego a real physics class using trig, because their skills won’t be up to it yet. And then the jump to college physics is going to be strenuous, to say the least. My student had taken TWO years of math-based physics in high school, PLUS Calc 1 and 2, in high school, and he is very, very smart, and he still really had to work at real calc-based physics in college. A secret the science prep industry doesn’t really want you to know is that physics without calculus is actually kind of a fraud, and verging on a waste of time. I couldn’t have kept mine from doing it anyway, they would have rebelled 🙂 plus we needed a third lab course, so we did it, and we had fun, but it wasn’t the most efficient use of time, since they will have to totally relearn it in college.
August 1, 2014 at 8:39 pm
abidnginhim
Participant
The DIVE ICP course would have helped my dd in DIVE biology because of the chemistry. The physics is not really physics because it’s only based on pre-algebra as you said but it could have easily taken the place of Apologia Physical for my dd so if someone is taking a physical science course prior to high school science anyway it would work. My dd would have much preferred to go that route.
August 1, 2014 at 9:12 pm
abidnginhim
Participant
My comment about taking physics earlier in high school prior to biology or chemistry was just referring to my dd specifically. It would have been perfectly fine for her to take a conceptual physics course first if she so desired. She really, really wanted to learn about physics. I don’t think she would have minded taking conceptual physics first and another course later on OR conceptual physics might have satisfied her desire to learn about physics and she could have passed on the physics course this year. I didn’t require it of her, it’s a difficult course, and I’m not sure she will finish it. She is an artist and would prefer to spend her time drawing. She’ll be going to art school.
I only wanted to suggest in my post above that DIVE ICP can be a good foundation for the rest of DIVE Science courses. The recommened text for ICP is the BJU Physical Science book so it’s meant to replace a physical science course.