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Real World after CM
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I currently homeschool my 11 y.o mentally challenged son & 6 y.o. son. My three daughters are 21, 18, & 14, with the two youngest girls going to a parochial high school. I really want to use CM for my boys (and did somewhat w/my girls), but due to a recent social problem my 14 y.o. has had at school, I am worried as to how my 6 y.o. will handle real world people )-: when he gets older. I’ve homeschooled all of my girls until high school, with them only going there b/c they were desperate to be with “regular” kids (our experiences w/homeschoolers being not so great). My oldest had no real problems, but my 18 y.o., now a senior, has. However, she is also ADD & FINALLY on the medications that have greatly improved the quality of her life (my husband & I have rampantly tainted genes [did I say that correctly (-; ?] when it comes to issues like ADD, depression, etc.). So we were never sure how much the problems she experienced were due to the girls at school (it’s a Catholic all-girl school) & how much were due to her own problems. We’re beginning to get the answer now that our 14 y.o. is there as a freshman. I know that the world is kind of rotten, but HOLY COW, I obviously didn’t realize how much. I simply cannot believe how cruelly & raunchily these young women behave and speak, especially on social media. OK, I DO believe it, but i’m still shocked. Apparently, the movies like “Mean Girls” are spot on. My daughter has been non-violently threatened, shunned, and talked to abominally, and I was ready to pull her out as soon as the most recent incidence of such happened a few days ago. My husband & I have tried SO hard to raise our family as Catholic, loving, God-fearing people, and I have seen with my older two girls and now my youngest daughter that what we have instilled in them is put to the test every single hour out in the real world. My oldest who was at a conference for her job recently actually saw a male co-worker throw a drink in the face of one man & another one down the back of an elderly woman simply b/c he did not receive an award he had expected to win! So I know that the behavior at our all-girl school is not simply the usual cattiness every teenaged girl seems to have to endure.
My problem is that my husband, who I deeply respect, love, and whose judgment is usually flawless (-; , believes that to take our youngest (Abby) out, either now or for the rest of her high school years, would be detrimental to her as far as dealing w/people like this once she leaves school. He says that as bad as it is, it is actually worse in the “real” world. I really believe him given that he is an anesthesiologist who deals w/an alarmingly increasing amount of heroin addicts as well as many other patients in horrible situations. But the thought of Abby being exposed to these girls, when we are SO not like that, is incredbily depressing )-: . He says that this is, sadly, the perfect place for her to develop critiical social skills w/out her getting physically getting harmed (the threatening I mentioned earlier involves the social media sites like starting rumors, putting phone numbers on Twitter, menacing stares at school, that kind of thing). He believes that to continue to shelter her at home is akin to throwing her to the lions, so to speak (-; , once she graduates. And we even live in a conservative city!
To think that she has to endure this wretchedness for another three years is beyond sad to me. She certainly isn’t perfect, but she has been really shocked at how many friends she has of her own volition chosen to drop b/c of their drinking, drugging, or slutty behavior. And this started when she was 13 and even still in home school! I have been totally blindsided by so many of her friends b/c they were kind, polite, came from good families…I really don’t trust my judgment anymore when it comes to this kind of thing b/c these kids actually ARE nice, smart, etc. but they still do these awful things. I’m cynical and protective of my kids, and I didn’t smell coming any of what she’s had to deal with. I knew that we’d have to deal with this kind of thing occasionally, but constantly – when my daughter is a good girl and isn’t wise to the ways of the world? My senior and Abby come home from school daily saying, “I hate people,” b/c they were not raised like so many of their schoolmates. And the parents can be as bad as the kids! My girls have very few friends, and when I say “few,” I mean one or two at the most. Each of them has a boyfriend, which I wasn’t supportive of with my 14 y.o., BUT this boy has proven before they began dating what a wonderful kid he is. None of her so-called friends ever treated her as kindly as this boy. He has actually been the one who usually rescues her from these rotten situations! And my senior dates the brother of my oldest girl’s boyfriend (-: . We have been family friends for years and there are no worries there. I often teashe them that they needed to have just one more son for Abby (-: !
So what’s your guys’ opinion on keeping them in a home filled w/love, kindness, godliness, or sending them, at least for some of the older years, to school to make them aware of some of the negative behavior out in the world so that they can practice defensive tactics in a somewhat safe environment in order to navigate what lies in wait for them after high school/college?
Please forgive me for the length of this post! I wanted to make sue I gave as many details as possible so people could get the whole story.
Thank you very much in advance for any advice you can give me (-:
I didn’t read anything in your post that suggests that this is a “somewhat safe environment.”
I’d suggest serious Bible study at home, with Dad, while they are still at this school. Pray for their protection and pray that your husband’s heart will change in this matter.
I believe in using a school as a place to practice defensive tactics. The home is the place where you can discuss situations that can arise in life, go to Scripture, find the answer, and then hide it in your heart for later use down the road.
This is not meant to sound harsh. It’s my honest concern for you and your familly. I will be praying for you.
I just found this title. Can’t believe I missed one of Clarkson’s books! Anyway, I thought I’d share it with you in case it might be of help/encouragement.
10 Gifts of Wisdom: What Every Child Must Know Before They Leave Home, by Sally Clarkson
I heard someone say, “You wouldn’t drop your child in the middle of the street to teach them about traffic”. Maybe not exactly those words, but you get the idea. If their attitudes about people are not good because of what they are seeing, having them in the midst of it could have a negative result. Are there any homeschool groups around that they could be involved in if they homeschooled? Being in a conservative city as you stated, surely there would be other homeschoolers and groups that could be used for extracurricular activities. My advice would be to bring them home. They can be taught about life at home. I think that preparing them before they need to face it is better than making them have to deal with it while they are still maturing.
I’m going to say something that may shock you, but I believe your husband is dead wrong about school being a place to learn about dealing with “real world” people. We were having a conversation about our high school years with some friends the other day, and all of us were in total agreement that people change so much once they leave high school that they’re almost unrecognizable 5-10 years later. Sure, there are a few who will live all of their lives being rude, ignorant, and selfish; but the majority of people in the “real world” can’t get away with the type of behaviors that young girls in high school are allowed to get away with.
“Real life” will put you in your place QUICKLY if you’re at your adult job and start giving menacing stares, making threats, or starting rumors. Maturity has a lot to do with it, and it’s absolutely true that ALL 14yos (homeschooled or not) are not at the maturity level that they will be at when they’re 25. So, I disagree with your husband. School is not the perfect place to learn how to deal with “real world” people. School, however, is a great place to have your self esteem crushed, live in fear, be humiliated and made fun of, have your heart broken, be surrounded by a lust-filled atmosphere, be exposed to all kinds of inappropriateness, and generally be miserable. (Not saying that all high school students have that experience, but it sure sounds like your dd is headed in that direction).
Speaking from experience, high school is not the place where you discover your identity. I didn’t know who I even was as a person until I finally got away from all the people I went to high school with and developed on my own. When you’re confined to your reputation (good or bad), it tends to stunt your growth as a person. Plus, life in general does a lot to develop who you will be. I am not friends with a single person I went to high school with, and that’s not because I had a bunch of bad experiences (although there were some). People change. It’s just a fact. And these girls who are getting away with boyfriends, name-calling, Twitter junk, and menacing stares simply won’t be those people in a few years with some life under their belts. And if they are, they will be miserable themselves because they will have very few real relationships in their own lives.
At the rate things are going, your dd isn’t going to learn how to deal with people over the next three years. She’s either going to withdraw, become depressed, and just live to survive another day. OR, she’s going to become one of the crowd and start doing the same things all the other girls are doing. I hate to say it, but the 3-4 hours you have at home with her every evening aren’t outweighing the time and influence of 7-8 hours of high school every day.
I would seriously pray that your husband’s heart changes quickly. And pray fiercely that God protects your dd’s heart.
I hope I didn’t sound too harsh, but like TailorMade, I am geniunely concerned for your dd and what all this means for her heart and her future.
Blessings,
Lindsey
Not much time, but in my experiences (and talking to adult friends now) private schools seem to be “tougher” to break into than public schools and are not any “better” than public. Yes some are great, but the “behind the scenes” attitudes are awful. My one sister went to a regular 4-year college, my other sister a privage Christian college and the kids at the private Christian college were so much worse with attitudes and how mean they could be, very “2 faced” 🙁
I do not believe school is the place to learn “real world” things. The kids are in highschool and life is not highschool. I grew up HS’ed as were my siblings and we felt very ready for “real world” and college at 18 (I was 17) more so than the majority of my friends. I was exposed to real world problems wirking part time, involved in family conversations about finances… I think that is a much better way to “get ready”
I agree with the others. I am very concerned for your daughter’s safety. What starts out as “just” rumors, threats, and mean faces, etc, often escalates into violence. This is bullying behavior from the other kids, and it needs to end now. There have been too many stories of teens committing suicide because of mean things said on Facebook! Not trying to scare you, but, well, maybe I am! I, too, would be praying for a change of heart in your dh, and quickly.
As for “real world,” I don’t see any jobs after high school that look anything like high school. It is far, far from “real world” – all of institutional schools are completely different than the real world – which is a part of why a lot of us homeschool in the first place.
You guys are all SO nice to take the time to reply to my post (-: !! I am very grateful for all of the wonderful advice and comfort. It is very difficult indeed to live in a home where everyone (except the little boys) feel differently than you regarding something so important. And don’t worry: no one offended me or was too harsh (-: . I feel the same way as you guys, but my husband & older daughter are very convinced that if I take her home now or for next year, she will be faced with tough situations w/other people and she won’t know how to handle herself b/c it will be such a shock to her. For example, they said that if this current sitation with the threatening texts & menacing stares happened when she was older & she had never been exposed to anything like it, she might react too hastily & start something that would have otherwise been quashed b/c she’d handled something like it before. In my opinion, what she’s gone through in less than a year is PLENTY of experience! But my husband & daughter are actually afraid for her if she homeschooled again; I know-that sounds ridiculous but it’s true. They’re thinking that her experience in our home is so different from outside of it that she’ll be better off dealing with it in small increments at school. That way, when she is in college and the workplace, she will be better prepared to handle the bigger things, like simple unfairness from professors with whom you do NOT argue; colleagues gunning for your job who will stop at nothing to get it; verbally & even physically abusive co-workers. My husband, who I mentioned before was an anesthesiologist, said that in his small hospital, during the past month TWO nurses were fired for threating another co-worker w/physical violence. This is even a Christian hospital!! Another time, one of our friends who is a nurse anesthetist got fired in a rather devious way for something very minor b/c the nurse who embellished the situation to one of the higher-ups was mad about the scheduling our friend did. My husband sees this kind of thing more and more & is convinced that if Abby doesn’t get exposure to it now & learn how to deal with it on this small level, she will end-up getting herself hurt or fired as an adult. He even uses me as an example b/c I’m a stay-at-home mom, and my feelings get hurt more than they should. He’s not demeaning or hurtful or anything disrespectful like that. But he says that if I was “out there” everyday and saw the stuff that he does, I would be crushed emotionally and probably get hurt in some way b/c I am too trusting. We live in a nice area, and he doesn’t even want me going to the grocery at night b/c of all the odd people that come out at night. Well, one time I didn’t want to be bossed around (-; , so I went and was very sorry I had. He was right; you would have thought that the local asylum had a field trip to the grocery! I couldn’t believe the disgusting behavior I saw not to mention being afraid to get into my car in b/c of being alone in the dark.
So, you can see what I’m up against. When I say that I simply don’t think that the school is a good environment for her (not to mention how jaded, pessimistic, and just plain unhappy her older sister, who’s a senior, is), I get the pat-on-the-head kind of treatment & am told that I just don’t know what it’s like out there and that this is the best thing for her as preparation for life. I hate it!! But no matter what I say, it doesn’t rate b/c I’m “not out in the real world.” I am SO sick of hearing that! Then I’m told, “Well, it’s true; you’re not, so you really don’t know understand what we’re talking about.”
Because of the public schools around here that are even worse, my husband feels like Abby is just dipping her toes into the deep end instead of diving right into it. It’s like being conditioned. To make it even worse, my 21 y.o. and even daughter who’s a miserable senior say that their dad is right and if they hadn’t gone to school, they would have had culture shock and been unhappy b/c they would have been so unused to people in…let’s say it again…the real world. I can only blame the school so much; let’s face it – the true stories of the absolutely unthinkable things you read about or hear about are what our kids these days have to face. We all do. I often wonder how much worse things can get. After reading about how a mother decapitated her child then put her head in the freezer…well, I don’t hold out a lot of hope for the future.
Well, now that I’ve thoroughly depressed everyone (-; , I thank you again for your kind words and prayers. After reading what I’ve just written, I feel like I’ve posed an impossible-to-solve problem. My girls, though, have been great to me by saying that they are grateful for the solid foundation (their words, even!) we’ve given them. They say that it has helped immensely in dealing with awful people and situations. I certainly thank God for that, at least.
Oh, and someone mentioned possible homeschooled groups in the area. First of all, where I live (Cincinnati, Ohio) is known for having, to put it simply, rich people at one end of the street and poor people at the other. When I worked many years ago, I heard that a lot. People were so suprised at how nicely a street could start then deteriorate completely by the time you got to the bottom of it. So I really live in kind of a complex situation (-; . And there’s no way we’ll move b/c my husband finally got his dream home built after 14 years of planning and building (he even helped – he’s a very talented guy (-: ). Our neighborhood is nice – perfect for us b/c it’s tucked away a little but close to the city. The people are nice around here, too. But Cincinnati is a VERY Catholic city (old and German/Irish), and if you’re Catholic, you send your kids to the local Catholic school. While these schools obviously have their troubles, they’re still way better than the public ones, where they have to have see-through backpacks, get checked for drugs and guns, etc. I’ve tried to fit in a few of the homeschooling groups around here, but they are far and few between. Most of the events are at least 45 minutes away.
I continue to pray and teach my children what’s right and wrong, but I feel so hopeless about what they face every day. The level of depravity & self-serving behavior is so low now all over our country. My family is constantly bringing home stories about yet another truly awful thing that happened at work or school. And yet, these are the people everyone has to deal with; I know it’s not just us. It gets kind of hard to keep smiling after awhile with the hope that things will get better.
Well here are my thoughts….
I don’t know what your city is like. I don’t think the world is that bad… yes, it isn’t great…
I think your dh may work in a field where he sees a larger proportion of people in trouble than in the general population, giving him a more depressing view of mankind.
Yes, there are drug addicts and mean people in the world. At times people need to deal with them because of work or other reasons. But most of the time you can avoid interaction with them. It is really often a choice.
I have adult step-kids, some of whom have not made the best decisions. Over-all they are good, and their friends – although I wouldn’t choose to associate with them, seem not that bad.
I also volunteer with Scouts. In that I have met a fair number of teens and young adults that volunteer their time for things like first-aid support, search and rescue efforts, helping lead younger kids, and even training leaders. They work hard, and from what I see are becoming fine leaders and examples.
I would call this real-life.
I am more concerned that your husband and daughters are just totally dismissing your opinions and ideas because -well basically- because you are a stay-at-home mom. I find that disrespectful, and honestly insulting.
I must say, I agree with Suzukimom. I am not sure what it’s like where you live, but in my experience as well as the experiences of my family (including brothers, sisters, Mom, Dad, in laws, etc.), you DO NOT need to deal with these types of malicious, mean spirited, and gross behaviour on a daily basis. And when they do need to be dealt with, I would certainly hope that they would not be dealt with in the same way as someone in high school would deal with them. Also, I disagree with the whole premise that high school students should be figuring out how to deal with these situations on their own as they are happening to them, anyways. If they are going to be prepared for this stuff and have a confident, mature take on how to handle these types of behaviours, situations and people, then they should be trained by mature and loving ADULTS! This can be accomplished many ways. In high school, they will need to figure out how to deal with this on their own as it is happening. NOT good training, in my opinion. There are many opportunities to train teens to be able to handle things in a God-honouring, light-of-the-world kind of way right alongside a mature, God-honouring adult with previous experience. Missions trips, volunteering at shelters, I think Suzukimom mentioned scouts. The point is, if you feel the need to prepare them for the harsh realities of life, that’s fine, but it can be done in smarter, more productive ways in which real training is taking place with actual, experienced people instead of expecting them to figure things out as they go, on their own, without properly developed maturity or life skills.
I hope I didn’t come across as harsh or disrespectful to your hubby, however I very much disagree with him in this. And, though I am a stay at home homemaker, I believe I DO INDEED have much “real life” experience (growing up with my family) while being a missionary in a third world country.
I would pray for a serious change of heart for your hubby.
-Miranda
Wow, you guys gave terrific advice!! I can’t wait to show my husband and daughters what you posted (-: . I will post their reactions once they see what you wrote.
You guys are really nice to help me; thank you again (-: !
I’m sorry your family is going through all this. I’ve only homeschooled and have believed we’d homeschool all the way. Until the last few months…now it looks likely that we’ll send dd to a small Christian school for her freshman year(with option to come back home if she hates it or there’s issues). However, though not all kids are Christian, the staff are dedicated to nurturing the kids and upholding a Christian environment. There is drama, but sounds minor and another parent has hold me it’s like a big group of friends. It’s an opportunity to spread her wings and give more challenges to trust The Lord with but under our supervision. I know many wonderful kids who go or have gone to this school.
I would not be comfortable with what you’re describing. Do you have any other private school options? I’m in IN and agree with Suzuki mom that people aren’t all terrible as your hubby is describing. Yes, we live in a fallen, sinful world. But there are also many good decent people out there. A 14yo can’t get away from terrible people. But an adult can find a new job and have more choices about who to surround themselves with, and at a less vulnerable age.
Does she want to come home? If she really wants to be at school. and with Hubby’s view, I probably wouldn’t fight it if if would harm my relationship with my daughter. I’d just pray a lot….it sounds like she’s rising above it. Surely there are some nice girls there? I’d do all I could to try to find and nurture those friendships. Maybe start a bible study in your home for interested girls? But if she starts to change or suffer and want to be home I’d to it in a heartbeat. She’s probably experienced enough to ‘prepare’ her.
Or how about switching over to online and community college classes at some point? At least they’re not as engrossed in the whole environment. Sorry if my post was all over the place. I’m on my phone and on vacation…but I feel for you. Prayers to you and your family! Blessings, Gina
P.S. I’d only allow texting with approved friends and get rid of all other social media on her devices and have her password and tell her parents can check at any time.
Since this is a homeschool forum, I think that we are all going to tell you to bring her home. We all have the call to homeschool and firmly believe in the benefits. =)
There is a book called “Why Gender Matters: What Parents and Teachers Need to Know about the Emerging Science of Sex Differences” by Leonard Sax, MD. Here is a link to it:
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Gender-Matters-Teachers-Differences/dp/0767916255
Dr. Sax has researched and tracked children for many years to write this book. I read this several years ago when my older kids were younger so don’t remember all the details, but there was a section that strongly stood out to me about the way girls react to the kind of bullying that your dd is suffering from, and how a girl has a much harder time dealing emotionally with this type of thing than a boy, and how it can affect her for years. He talks of finding somewhere else your dd could have strong friends and a place to excell (sports, art, dance, etc). One example I remember was that when a girl was struggling, her parents found her a stable that offered riding lessons and enrolled her. She made great friends and was able to deal with the situation because she had somewhere else to have friends and belonging.
Personally, I would remove her from the situation. However, since your family is not realizing the kinds of damage this situation can cause, perhaps you could read it and share it with your husband. I think he may need to hear it from a more “scientific” point of view. 😉
Dr. Sax has also written a book dealing with a lot of the thigns that your dd is facing on daily basis. It might be worth checking out as well (I haven’t read it, though):
Here’s another awesome book suggestion for you and your husband:
Hold On to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers by Neufeld, Gordon and Mate, Gabor Md (Nov 19, 2008)
This is such a hard place to be. {{hugs}}
I commented some on the other thread that’s a little similar. (frustrated and depressed, I think it was).
Prayer is going to be your biggest help. Ask God to provide someone, or several someones, that will really speak to your dh, and your dd. I canNOT imagine how going to HS and being exposed to this, inundated w/ it on a daily basis for 4 yrs is going to teach them how to survive in the “real world.” I had to “deal” w/ some of this in HS, but no where near the extent that i see/hear about today.
The others have basically arleady stated what I think, so I’m not going to get into it again. I just wanted to let you know that you are not crazy and that I really don’t understand your dh’s or dd’s experiences as adults. I honestly don’t know of that many situations that would rival HS to this level. I’m not saying that things don’t happen “out there,” but not to the level they are sharing. wow! That’s surprising in itself.
Do your dc know what they are interested in? Or, have any idea of the field they want to pursue? Is there a Career Ctr or vocational school near you that would let you take a class or two in those areas?
Is taking just one class an option? Some schools allow that. Or, better yet, can you take some Community college classes? These would give them exposure but on a much more controlled level. Also, the CC classes would be much more “real” than the HS ones.
Don’t know if that helps or not, but I thought I would at least offer an alternative that they might be willing to go along with. HTH
K
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