SCM sufficiently challenging for High school? Please help me with this statement « SCM Discussion Forum: Charlotte Mason Method Homeschooling

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SCM sufficiently challenging for High school? Please help me with this statement

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Started 9 months ago by joyfulfarmgirl
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joyfulfarmgirl
Member

Can some of you moms that have used MFW for the younger years (2-8) help me with a concern I have?

I have enjoyed the materials I have purchased from SCM very much. I planned on using the SCM materials, Study Guides for history and other subjects as much as possible for the next few years for 6 of our 7 children. My oldest I planned on doing the MFW high school program. That would be a new venture for us.

Anyway, a mother on the TWTM board warned me that her daughter had read almost all of the SCM HIGH SCHOOL level books while she was in the MFW Elementary programs. She was basically giving me a warning about SCM not being rigorous enough. Since I don't have any MFW TMs, I have no way of verifying this and I thought I should ask here first.

Anyway, the reason why looking at the website for MFW doesn't fully shed
light on what that mom meant, is that MFW has these book recommendations
that are part of the TM (free reading), but not on their website. So unless you have the
TM, you don't see all the books that are recommended, but not required either.

I'm thinking this is where the daughter was picking up some books that SCM
might have on the high school curriculum guide possibly....

I’d love some input on the accuracy of this mom’s statement for those of you who can look at or remember your TM’s from MFW elementary years. I’m not trying to start a debate on which is a more CM program (I think that is obviously SCM) or better or anything. I just want to address in my mind what this mom stated to me as I have no way to check it out.

Also, hoping to not to cause anyone stress or anxiety, so please forgive me in advance, as that is not my intention! :-)

Thank you and blessings,
JFG

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
Jennifer
Member

I am not qualified to answer your question. I have never used MFW and my children are 2nd grade and under. BUT, could you just look at the books listed in the SCM curriculum guide for the high school levels and decide if YOU think they are appropriate for your highschooler? You could also add additional books to read if you wanted. The other mom you referred to may have different goals for her child than you do for yours. I guess it's all about perspective....

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
Jennifer WI
Member

I'm really not qualified to answer either. My oldest is 12, going into 7th grade. I just recently decided to come back to SCM and plan on using it through high school. I know I will add literature and supplemental books to SCM, just like I would with any other program that I would use. I've used Sonlight and added books or replaced books, I've used Ambleside Online and done the same. What I love about SCM is that I can teach my kids on the same time period, sharing some things for fantastic family time, while challenging them on their own levels as well. Of course I will add books. Like I said, I always do. No one curriculum can have all the books that I personally would choose for my child, but SCM does a pretty good job. I will take it a year at a time and tweek what needs to be tweeked for my individual students (I have 5) as I go. And I am LOVING that Bible is placed in such a position of importance with SCM, which is my absolute main goal. With other curriculums I've used I often feel like I'm trying to cram in Bible. Not so with SCM. It's a part of our day as it should be.

I wish you well in finding what is just right for your family.

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
joyfulfarmgirl
Member

Thank you ladies...these are good perspectives. I'm still hoping to hear from any mothers who have used MFW in the 2-8th family rotation too.
I'm not tremendously stressed or anything. But I am at a bit of a fork in the road with my oldest entering high school and making plans for her and her younger 6 sibs.

Thank you and blessings!
JFG

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
JennNC
Member

JFG... there has been a lot of discussion about whether SCM is enough at the high school level and if you search you may find some helpful threads.

We used MFW K, 1st, ADV, ECC, and almost all of the 5-year cycle. So I'm familiar with the early levels of MFW. We've never used their high school courses.

To answer your question about books specifically, I think you'll find that some of MFW's "book basket" selections will show up as required resources in SCM jr high/high school. Others will not. There are WAY more book selections listed in the book basket section of the MFW TM than most families will use.

However, Augustus Caesar's World in Mod 3... if you have gone through the MFW cycle, you've already used that extensively. And Mara. ACW is a required resource in MFW and in SCM, Mara is a highly recommended book basket resource in MFW, it is required in SCM. Iliad/Odyssey show up at the high school level in both SCM and MFW. Plutarch doesn't show up at all in MFW I don't think... but I may be remembering wrong. These are just some examples.

Looking over the lists to remind myself what is included, a few things pop out at me... one is that a lot of the books in SCM's 10th - 12th range (especially in Mod 5 and 6) are also used in Beautiful Feet Books American and World history for high schoolers, also geared towards 10th - 12th. My current 10th grade boy used that program for 9th grade and found it sufficiently challenging. Now I know you're not asking about BFBooks, but wanted to mention that since many of the books are the same. For example I wouldn't personally give the Albert Marrin books to someone younger than 10th or maybe advanced 9th. Of course that's going to differ from family to family.

Another randon thought... I *do* think that SCM as written in Mod 1, 2, and 3 is too light for a high schooler. However it is my understanding from some previous threads that SCM would recommend combining some or all of these Mod's for a high schooler into one year. I have no experiece with that, just wanted to mention it.

Comparing MFW and SCM is really comparing apples and oranges because they are so fundamentally different, so it may come down to you and your high schooler deciding what your goals are and which program would better meet them.

For example, SCM groups 9th grade with 7th and 8th, MFW does not. So you are going to see somewhat lower level books in the SCM 7th - 9th grouping sometimes. For most of my kids this works out perfectly. For my brainy academic boy, I would need to ramp things up at that level. However, like Jennifer mentioned, I really like being able to add to the program for him with the specific books I want him to read. So that's a personal preference.

Also, SCM is written to keep the whole family learning "on the same page" so to speak. I have found that my high schooler really does well with this. He enjoys still having some time with the whole family but then having his own stimulating and challenging books to read/narrate. Some kids might prefer the way MFW does it where the high schoolers are completely separate.

Anyway, this post is very random and I hope I haven't further confused things. If you have more questions, please ask!

~ Jenn

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
TailorMade
Member

The only alteration I plan on making to SCM history modules for as our 12yos and 6yod reach highschool is to add Stobaugh's SAT & College Preparation Course for literature (though these aren't necessarily historical literature.) In my estimation, using SCM from early on (or if you've used MFW, Sonlight, AO, etc.,) means your children have a much better understanding of history compared with their peers in the first place. Keep a timeline/BOC and throw in some documentaries to stretch it if you're concerned. Just my thoughts.
Becca<><

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
momto2blessings
Member

I'm not qualified either...never used MFW and oldest is entering 7th:) But I was briefly tempted by the looks of their h.s. program and ordered a catalog....was in a phase where I didn't want to worry about planning!! To me, it looks like it would be a great program to use if you don't want to plan, want your high schooler independent, and don't mind that it's not as CM as say SCM or Ambleside.

Just me, but I knew I would not use all of it, tweak it (as I always do any program:), and I really like my kids on the same history cycle. SCM did not look as rigorous to me when I came from Ambleside, I'll admit. But the more I use of it the more I realize that it it's provides a wonderful foundation and really simplifies my life and makes a CM education doable for our family. I do plan to add a bit more for h.s. Every year I peruse AO's site and add in some of their selections. I also use Truthquest History as a supplement to SCM, for the biblical commentary, added book selections, and movies. Just what works here:) Hope you find a good fit! Blessings, Gina

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
JennNC
Member

But the more I use of it the more I realize that it it's provides a wonderful foundation and really simplifies my life and makes a CM education doable for our family. I do plan to add a bit more for h.s. Every year I peruse AO's site and add in some of their selections.

Good point Gina, I do that too... I look over Lindafay's site (which at the high school level is just AO tweaked), give a quick glance to Sonlight and Beautiful Feet, etc.

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
Bookworm
Member

This is a REALLY GOOD IDEA. Once you find a good platform, then if you feel you need more, you add a book. Or a Teaching Company course. Or your kid suddenly develops an obsession with military history and you buy him some additional books. Or whatever. Start with your "basic platform", watch for interests and watch for areas you might need to "bump up" to stay challenged, and make adjustments as you go. If your kid gets all her history reading done in half an hour during the week, well, maybe she needs more. Look up some lists, ENLIST HER to help find or plan more (what is she interested in?) and add a little. This is easy to do. Start, though, with something you know will work for you. It's much easier to tweak UP than it is to tweak DOWN, IME.

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
JennNC
Member

Or a Teaching Company course.

Yes! Love these! (And most of them are on sale right now...)

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
momto2blessings
Member

Yes, so true it's easier to 'tweak up.' When I used SL, I thought the books were wonderful, but we were so busy keeping up w/the pace we didn't have time to add in many CM aspects. School is much more peaceful now that we schedule subjects at our own pace. I want my kids to have a solid foundation in core subjects, but there's a lot of leeway (I think) as far as how many books to read, how often to do Shakespeare, etc. Fine tuning these aspects keeps my life sane:) Thanks for the ideas to enlist our kids in the decisions and the reminder about Linda Fay's site! Gina

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
joyfulfarmgirl
Member

Thanks ladies again for more helpful info! I didn't meant to duck and run, we just had lots of company over and there was a lot of house cleaning involved to get ready!
I really apreciate how nobody seemed to get their feathers ruffled by the question or discussion.

I'm thankful to be part of this group! :-)
Blessings,
JFG

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
LDIMom
Member

Well I have no knowledge or experience with MFW and am late weighing in, but I do think SCM books for the high school range and 7-9th are very appropriate.

I wanted to echo what JennNC said about combining Modules 1-3 (or some part of them) in HS years. This is exactly what I plan to do for my 8th grader. We are in Module 5 now. We did Module 4 last year.

Before that, he was in PS until the end of 4th grade where he seemed to get little to no history? Anyway, we began our homeschool journey with Mystery of History Vol 1 and Vol 2, two years in a row. When we found SCM last summer, I knew we'd be switching and Module 4 seemed to overlap just a bit with MOH Vol. 2 and take up where it left off. So we modifed as needed and went forward.

To give you an idea of how easily you can adapt the SCM Module suggestions, it is divided by Grades: 1-3, 4-6, 7-9, and finally 10-12. My son is in 8th this year but is a voracious reader. He is reading a couple of selections from the 10-12 suggestions even though he is in 8th grade.

Conversely, my 12YO son, a 6th grader, is just on his 2nd year of speaking and reading English, and is reading independently now. He is reading selections from the 1-3 level, but he is so excited to have his own books and be able to read on his own. I also have 7YO DS and 6YO DD, in 1st grade, who use the same books, but I read aloud to them.

So my personal thoughts are the guides are just that: a guide, and with the bookfinder on here, and the suggestions in the guide, you can certainly substitute as needed, but so far in Module 4 and the beginning of Module 5, I would not want a younger child reading any of the books my 13YO read last year in Module 4.

I have 6 children and can't read aloud to them all, so I like using books that SCM guides suggest b/c I know they are well thought out, and they are always good to make notes IN the guide if something might be questionable. I have also found Sonya and others at SCM to be very helpful with specific questions on books (as are members on the forum).

Can you tell I love the SCM history modules? With 6 children in grades 1st (2 DC), 5th, 6th, and 8th, I find the ease of use and ability to all be studying same time period very helpful.

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
Sue in MN
Member

I think that person on the TWTM Board is mistaken. We used MFW 2nd - 8th grade program and my daughter read most of what we could get our hands on. When we switched to SCM History modules this year I did notice that she had read the books listed for elementary grades but the high school books were new. Most literature based companies schedule the same range of better literature to be read at some point. Many books that SCM scheduled were not offered in other programs and that was one of the reasons why I chose SCM this year.

But you said that you were using MFW for high school and SCM for the younger ones anyway so I don't understand why you are worried about SCM's high school. SCM has their books listed for all ages in their samples so you can take a look at them. With any program you can add or subtract at will. Choose the one that works best for you now. Life changes things and you can work out later the issues of later.

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post
TailorMade
Member

I'm not sure if this was posted earlier, but thought it fit into this thread.
http://www.charlottemasonhelp.com/2009/07/heo-year-7-schedule-that-fits-it-all-in.html?m=1
It talks about CM style high school amounts if study.
Becca<><

Posted 9 months ago # Report Post

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