Speaking of Laying Down the Rails - does anyone have experience with getting kids of this age 15ish to buy into the idea and join the family in working on these things?  I so wish I had known how to do this when my first kids were little!  I have a fifteen yo son and would like to have hime join with me and the younger ones on this...contemplating...

Blessedmom,

Just want to say I've been there!!  My heart aches for you.  Things have gotten much better largely b/c of Dad helping  w/ accountability and respect as suggested and encouraging me to get out of the way (as in not allow him to be relying on me for what to do next, etc.  make/allow him to be in charge/know what and when to do and Dad hold him accountable).  Boys are tough for we Moms to handle when Dad isn't present all the time.  They need Dad's hand - heavily sometimes!

One other thing I'm confident made a BIG difference is this:

Are you familiar with the book/seminar "Love and Respect"?  The context is marriage...and I thinkg we are relatively familiar with the concept here probably, but the earth-shaker for me was that I need to apply this with my son.  Just realizing that he is becoming a man...struggling to become a good one, boys in this range are volatile, and the quiet voice of respect - Mom respecting and appreciating, praising his efforts to be responsible (if you can just catch one and draw your attention to it!!).  I'm just sure this was the saving grace for me.  Truly help sent from heaven when I despararately needed it.  A wonderful book(s) to read with your younger one (and the older one may just want to listen in) along this line is Little Britches and the sequel "Man of the Family".  We had been reading these books about this time and they gave me the practical application of the conceept...the how to.  If you haven't read them, I can't recommend them too highly.  They did this mother's heart a world of good in showing me how to help my son and be what he needed me to be so he could respect me also.  Which was/is a question I've asked myself repeatedly too - am I not worhty of their respect?  Why can't they respect me?  Anyway, I do think it's a two-way street (with no excuses being made for boys not treating their mothers with honor) in the sense that we can either make it easier or more difficult by our own actions/reactions.

Be of good courage...

Julie

A few more thoughts to add in here:
1. Do you have Laying Down the Rails from SCM? It sounds like you need to focus on habit training and they need to be on board with it through character associations.
2. My ds7 commented tonight that I am not his teacher and I told him that I am and then he said, "but you look like my mom." lol. I don't think it was disrespect at this age. It is just a tough issue to think of your mother as your teacher, also. After all, wouldn't you rather live with your mother than your teacher?!
3. When you feel you are a failure, look at the verses in the Bible that help us to lean on the Lord for His help and guidance: 2 Corinthians 12:9-11 where it is included, "...when I am weak, then am I strong."

Yes, After pulling my kids out of school they had similar problems. My youngest son told me he missed his friends. I think that was all it was. I did go over their disrespectful behavior and that seemed to work fine for me. I took it out of the book by Doorpost ,"Instruction in Righteousness" It has all the sins, and all the Bible verses that go with them. The book also tells you  what to do about the situations, and who in the Bible had that problem. It was very informative.  I then told them what school would be like if they were there. They had two or three 15 minute recesses. That was all. You can't just go outside and play when you want to. They also have school all day. I would point out everytime I saw a school bus. Look they are just now getting home from school. We have been out of school for hours. I even said, " Boy, I am glad you were able to go to the store with me today. If you were in school we couldn't do this."  I said that everytime we went anywhere. Still do it. :)  they have since stopped. My oldest son has said to me how happy he is I homeschool. Boy, my mouth about dropped to the floor. Today, He asked me about chocolate and where it came from. He said, a video said the Myans. So we looked it up on the Interenet. My comment was. " don't you just love homeschooling? You can look up all the questions you have rolling around in your brain! He smiled and knodded. Then he gave me a hug. Good Luck and pray alot for wisdom and the oppurtunities and like everyone else said it is in their heart. Also, don't ask them if they miss their friends in school. that will just give them fuel to burn with. :) May God bless you in your homeschooling. Remember no one is perfect except Jesus and even he had imperfect parents. And they Homeschooled! :)

Such a great thread, ladies! Thanks for all your kind words and fantastic advice. And please know, blessedmom, that we all have "those" days... I'm having one of "those" weeks right now with Dad out of town... he's the crazy glue that holds our chaos together!

Haven't read all the posts above, but just wanted to share my first thought. Does your husband support you fully in homeschooling? Sounds like he needs to take the reigns and lay the law down with disrespecting kids. You need support in this situation and the children need to see their parents strongly united on issues of obedience in attitude and respect. Schools will not help with that, in fact it could very well get worse if this isn't dealt with at home.

Prayers of peace to you and your family. Hang in there with faith! :)

Hey, just wanted to add.... pick up "Lies Homeschooling Mom's Believe" by Todd Wilson - and if you can, his cartoon books.  (I don't own the cartoon books - but from the cartoons in the other book, they would be good!)

A cartoon in the book above.... (paraphrased)

Mom Talking to Dad:  The kids have been acting up all day... I think we should put them in school

Dad: Ok... Public or Private?

Mom: BOARDING!

hope it gave you a smile!

I just want to pop back in here really quickly and THANK you all for the comments and guidance.  It is such a blessed treasure to be lifted up by godly women!

I will be taking the time to go back and read each post in detail and soaking up your wisdom.  I truly want to have our homeschool experience be a positive one for all of us.  (My guys are 15 and 11, and we have a 3 yo little girl who imitates everything they do! ...good and bad )  I love them so dearly, but sometimes I feel like I am failing them when we have rough days.

Thank you again, and I hope you don't mind if I ask some more questions after I read all of your comments

I also wanted to chime in again and say that I had two stepsons that lived with us, just a few years older than my oldest. They went to public school, and there was so much I disliked about their attitudes over the years. It's hard to tell how much of that was influenced by the school system and school friends and how much was just who they chose to be.

I tried to be involved in their school, but with 3 little ones very close in age at home, it got harder and harder to do more than just telling them "no reading these books" and keeping them home on the afternoon their classes were having a Halloween party. (We don't celebrate Halloween.) In fact, I discovered that even though I had told them they were not to read a particular series of books at school, they did borrow one from the school library and read it during their class free reading time. Also, there was a play based on one of those books that was featured at an assembly, and I never received advance notice about it. I had told their teachers at the beginning of the year that I did not want them reading books containing witchcraft, wizardry, the occult, etc., and that was "forgotten" when this assembly occurred. Furthermore, I was told that the library was understaffed and so they could not and would not restrict what books the children borrow.

Many children progress through the public school system and end up educated, with socially acceptable characteristics, but they are changed through the experience, and not always for the better or according to the parents' belief system.

I can relate to what you are saying blessedmom.  I have thought that our relationship (that of my kids and I) would be better if they were in PS or Pri. School, and have actually told them so, especially when we've had a rough day.  During those challenging moments when I can't seem to get the concept understood (whatever that may be) and our relationship is hurt because of it, I feel that we all would be better off if they were in school.  I could  just be mom and not have to be teacher/mom.  But....then reality hits and I think of when they have their tons of homework I will be the one helping/encouraging/expecting/asking if it's done or not done/telling them they can't do "this or that" since their work is not done or done to someone's satisfaction, etc., and we're back to square one. I will be teacher/mom again but this time on someone else's time frame with the added bonus that we can't study what we want, but what they want (and I don't mean the kids!).

Honestly, I only really feel this way around a certain time of the month when I am "out of sorts" and can not seem to concentrate/multi-task/keep things moving, etc. But, that is frequent enough to know how you must feel.  At those times, I feel like a failure and that I'm failing the kids....it's sad that our society's view of success can make those that are really trying to feel bad about what they are/aren't doing.  That's how I feel, at times, anyway.

I will pray for you and wanted you to know that you are not alone....parenting, in any capacity, is challenging.  It seems to go from sweet "goo goo's" to real challenges of the heart overnight.  Take care.

Let's not forget that in public school you could not get a restroom break at certain times. You had to wait to go and you could not get up in the middle of tests and could not speak out of turn.

My son is actually enjoying reading again!!! No more AR tests (we live in Texas) and no written book reports if you miss too many questions on said AR test. We do oral narration on the books and I will eventually have him start writing narrations and move on from there. For now, I want him to read for enjoyment...not worry about testing.

He asked me the other day if it was a normal feeling to feel like you were actually IN the story when you read it. He said he could see everything the book was describing and hated leaving the characters in bad situations every night. He could not wait to see them again. NOW, that made me so happy!!! I told him that what he just told me was the best thing I have ever heard in my life from him about reading...and, yes, it was normal and wonderful that he felt that way about his book.

I like that idea of making homeschool like public school Never thought of that, but will definately be making a note of it.

One of my "wise moms" who has been homeschooling for 20 years advised me that if my kids complain about the little bit of work I ask of them, to just give them more work. They are already unhappy so what is the difference of a little more work I have done that quite a few times and they are understanding that complaining and "eye rolling" at assignments is not beneficial for them. I expect quality work as well so if it is done sloppy, they redo it. My 3rd grader is the one with sloppy work issues so that is the current struggle for me.

It has also helped that my husband has been home (laid off after 5 years of total dedication to his job and clients) and has seen the disrespect at times. All he has to do is stick his head around the corner and ask if there is a problem. 

It is an attitude problem and adjustments will need to be made. Sending them off to public school is not going to change that and, like other mom have said, it could just get worse in the end.

My kids will, on occasion, smart back with "why are you asking me, you should know too". I tell them that I do know but the whole point of schooling and teaching them is to make sure THEY know it and remember it as well. If they can't recall a few small details, then they have to review their notes or reread the book section. 

Praying for you during this time.....

I wish this was like facebook & I could push the "like" button for so many of these responses.  I love gleaning from the wisdom of experienced mothers.

Nothing like a dose of reaity, huh, Suzukimom??  Why is the grass always greener somewhere else?? 

Spelling lists, tests, grades, writing and re-writing the same little story with red corrections all over it, etc...no recess if work is not done, no matter the reason, no moving around.  Give them so much to do that they have tons of homework everyday - whether they get the concept or not... Take a comprehension test on all books read,,,and no choosing outside your level,,, Yikes...I'm so thankful that we can homeschool.  That was my kiddos life two years ago... poor things.  Your kids wouldn't like it.  =)

I am sorry that things are so hard for you right now.  I agree with the other posters...and wonder if Dad can help back you up.  Defintely work on the basic habits.  Also, see if the different approaches to narration can help you get over the hurdle of narration. 

Here they are: http://simplycharlottemason.com/timesavers/narration/   HTH

I agree with the posts you have been given so far....

Also, a number of months ago, someone mentioned that when their kids were acting up like that, that she gives them a "school day".  Has each child sitting at a desk (maybe a table...) - had an alarm going off at school start, recess time, etc... had them read textbooks and fill out worksheets...  if they misbehaved they had to sit with their head on the desk (or facing a wall?) - gave them surprise quizes, gave them homework, etc.

After a couple of days of that... they were begging to do homeschool again.....

I think Sue is right - those attitudes aren't going to change just because you send them to school... in fact... they might get WORSE! 

If they don't like they way you are teaching them, maybe you could switch back to some workbook type things - perhaps that's not the "best" or most "fun" way to learn, but then they would be responsible for knowing the material by having to read, study and test or answer written questions.  You could correct their work and give it back to them, just like a real "teacher".