Rachel that makes good sense to me and is really what I was thinking - that they would make connections between all the events eventually as we start to see more events and people on the timelines and even between the stories. That's the whole point anyway, isn't it? To me, at the elementary stage, the point is to get them familiar with events and people in history. When we go through it all again during high school, I think it will all really start to fall in place in a more concrete way. I just don't have  personal experience to back up my theory, ya know?

I would be interested to hear your thoughts about American History being taught alongside Ancient History. I struggled with how to do only one stream of history, but it was really important to me to begin chronologically. Yet I didn't want to put off American History for so long. Plus my husband also believes its vitally important that our boys have a really strong knowledge of American History as well. Especially considering how it gets so twisted in the political realm. I just don't believe that you can cover it in a year in high school and say its good. I don't believe the US is the center of the universe, but here is where we live and we have to navigate the political and cultural seas of this country. How can you do that well if you don't understand the history? Anyway, now I'm rambling! lol.

Becky

Well, I have known people who've done both. If she's more involved with people doing Sonlight or another  pre-organized curriculum, then I can understand why she hasn't come across anyone, whether lit. based or not, it's been organized neatly by someone else and according to someone else's plans, right?

For the exception of maybe a few children, I don't believe children get as confused as she assumes, with all due respect. My own experience tells me otherwise. Though we haven't been "officially" doing two streams, being that I am a general history freak (and my belief that a firm knowledge of the past gives greater understanding to human nature and the events of the present), they are surrounded by events in time; I always have different time periods being learned about and represented in my home. I'll try to break down for you the different times being represented-just to hopefully give you encouragement. Forgive the excessive length.

Though I've been reading aloud from CHOW from St. Brendan till Joan of Arc; in the midst of that, they have read independent books and though I try, they aren't always in exact chronological order as I get them all from the library, but they are usually close. These below we have read specifically in the subject of "history" since the beginning of this school year (since mid-Oct. 2010), on Mon., Tues., and Sat.

Family:

• St. Brendan the Navigator ( 11/2010 only)
• Stories of the Pilgrims (for Nov., for Thanksgiving) 11/2010 only
• The Discovery of the Americas (from 11/2010 till 12/2010)
• Beorn the Proud (11/2011 till 1/2011)
• American History Stories Vol. 1 ,chapt. 1 and 2 (on 10/25/2010 and 3/14/2011)
• The Vikings (Landmark book-excellent) from 1/2011 till 3/2011
• Viking Tales (11/2010 till 4/2011)
• The Shadow People (for preparing for Holocaust Remberance Day-takes place in the 1900's) from 4/2011-5/2011
• Fifty Famous People (10/2010 till 5/2011)
• The Magna Charta (3/22/2011 till now)
• CHOW (started in Dec. 2010 till now)
• Journey Through Jewish History (covers from 1 AD till 1980's)
• The Arabs: Peoples of the Past Series ( 5/2011 till now)
• A Child's History of the Hebrew People (started in July, starts w/learning the ways of nomadic peoples after the Fall and then to on to Abraham)

My children individually (B=both):

• DS- The Story of Rolf and the Viking Bow (11/2010 till 12/2010)
• B-Henry Knox: Bookseller, Soldier, Patriot (1/2011)
• B-What do we Know about the Vikings? (2/21/2011 and 2/22/2011)
• B-The Vikings (Strange Histories) (3/01/2011)
• B-Our Little Viking Cousin of Long Ago (1/2011 till 3/2011)
• DD-Exploring the World of the Vikings (3/2011)
• DS- Men of Iron (1/2011 till 3/2011)
• B-Patrick: Patron Saint of Ireland (for St, Patrick's Day)
• B-What We Know ABout: The Celts (for St. PAtrick's Day)
• B-And there Was America (3/2011)
• B-When KNights Were Bold- audio (3/2011 till 4/2011) (dd is still listening, she's behind on her listening assignments)
• DS-Famous Men of the MIddle Ages - audio (3/2011 till 4/2011)
• DD-Brother Francis and the Friendly Beasts (about St. Francis) (3/2011)
• B-The Merry Adv. Of Robin Hood -audio (3/2011)
• DD-G-d's Troubadour, The Story of St. Francis of Assisi (3/2011 till 7/2011)
• B-Surviving Hitler: A Boy in the Nazi Death Camps (4/2011 preparing for Holocaust Rememberance Day)
• B-Saladin: The Warrior Who Defended His PEople (5/2011)
• B-Adam of the Road (4/2011 till 5/2011)
• B-Genghis Kahn and the Mongol Horde (5/2011 till 7/2011)
• DD-Joan of Arc by Diane Stanley (5/2011)
• B-...If you Lived in the Days of Knights (5/24/2011)
• DS-Spy for the Confederacy: Rose O'Neal Greenhow (to feed my son's interst in the Civil War) from 7/1-7/3/2011
• B-Will You Sign Here, Mr. HAncock? (for Independence Day)
• B- What's the Big Idea Ben Franklin? (for Independence Day)
• B- Independent Dames (for Independence Day)
• DS-This Country of Ours Chap. 1-63-audio (6/2011 till 7/2011)
• B-Adventures of Marco Polo (7/2011 till now)
• and we're still not finished with this year...(waiting for Diane Warings' Vol. 2 What in the World? CD's, too)

Now, this doesn't include the Little House books for our evening read/or audio reading, which is late 19th C.; two Lamplighter books that are in England in the late 19th C.; our composer study which, at least this year, is Beethoven, overlapping the 18th and 19th C.; my son read a book about Naval heroes in the Civil War and both read The Devil's Arithmetic about the Holocaust; my dd read through the Sarah, Plain and Tall series which is turn of the 20th C.; two LMA books set in the 19th C. America; a William Shakespeare bio (16th C.);for Art-finished Monet (19th), then began Giotto (13th); listened to Old Yeller, set in the 19th C. Texas, among some other audios; some Childhood of Famous Americans books as they were interested in learning about them. Plus, they love to watch Liberty's Kids.

I won't continue; I think you get the idea. Although there was a steady movement from the early middle ages through to the high where we are now, we don't stay there fixedly and not stray into other time periods if a holiday comes or if personal interest arises (though personal interests are handled during personal time, not during "school time" or we'd never get anywhere). Plus, I have books lying around from other time periods for them to pick up anytime (today my son was reading about the Election of 1800). Starting next year, our music and art studies will coincide with our time period.

I find that my children are able to make great connections with an expanse of historical knowledge in their memory-like Beethoven being born 6 yrs. before the Declaration being signed; connecting the Crusades w/ the time of Genghis Kahn. In our L. Ingles bio, they pointed out the time connections of people's lives and actions in relation to the Civil War and a connection to another Lamplighter book because Pa (in Little House) plays a song on his fiddle that was a favorite of the English barrel-organ grinder in Lamplighter. Modern events in relation to WWII through their knowledge of the Holocaust; Columbus sailing the same year as the beginning of the Inquisition because of their Jewish History studies.

Add into all this is the geography of all these locations in the books that we read-it's just natural for them to want to know where the events took place. Does that confuse their geography because there are so many places? No. I could go on and on...They didn't confuse these different time periods above with each other at all but made connections within them. Does that make sense or am I just rambling?

We also use a Book of Centuries, but not as often as I'd like.

So, to sum it up (finally, right?); they can handle it. How strictly you keep to a time period is up to personal preference. There's too much history, that affects our current times (which we are also very vocal about in my home which inevitably leads us back in time since there's nothing new under the sun) to stay put in only one time period without immersing yourself in G-d's Story. Yes, having a general schedule with a plan-absolutely; but I just can't stay locked down and tell my children no you can't read about that person or event or listen to that composer because “we're not there yet”.

I do want to answer your question about Am. Hist. Being so vital to us, but I think I've gone on long enough. I hope I've been of some help; I didn't know how else to make my point!

G-d Bless,

Rachel

Wow, thanks Rachel. That means a lot to me coming from you! I only have minute here, but I just talked with my cousin who has hs'd all 4 of her kids (mostly using Sonlight, so she's big on the literature thing) and just graduated her first! Anyway, she was really surprised that I was doing two streams of history. And said she'd "never" heard of anyone doing this. Now, I really respect her opinion, and she is very involved in the homeschool community. She thinks the kids will be confused. But I'm sure I read somewhere, that SOMEone out there was doing/had done 2 streams without problem. What are your thoughts on this? I was trying to be very careful about not overloading them, which is why I wanted to go slowly through American. But my cousin was asking me why did I think doing American was important now, etc. And I don't think I was very persuasive in my argument. IDK. 

I will look at the LA program you mentioned. It isn't really that expensive.... I think I will wait until I'm sure she's going to be with us the whole year before I purchase it, though. I will, however, start getting some Landmark books and the Christian Liberty Nature Reader. I too was thinking #4. No, my son isn't reading it..... he's so hard to figure what will catch his interest. I'm surprised he's as into the history as he is. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the battles and fighting... lol. But really, I'm completely lost on nature study. I'm so intimidated by it - there's so very much I don't know and I just don't feel confident in "guiding" them on a nature walk. Anyway.

Thanks so much for commenting. I really, really, appreciate it.

Becky

Hi Becky!!

  I think your schedule looks good.

For the history that you were unsure of, I'd recommend the older Landmark books ( http://www.pattysbookshop.com/home/landmarkserieschronologicallist.html)especially or any older book selections from TQ that she can devour (but the original Landmarks are so good, generally available at libraries and at the beginning of her reading level, I assume ( my 9 and 10 yr. olds read them this past year).

I think using the #4 Christian Liberty Reader for her would be the best choice. That's the one my son has been on this past year. I think #3 would feel too young (again I'm assuming, not knowing her). The entire series is very worthy; is your son reading #1? My hubby was complementing the information in them just yesterday.

The Spelling Wisdom is a good idea; though at her age/grade level, she does need to be adding in more, IMO. What about finding a used copy of ILL online? I wouldn't recommend finding it online to print out; the book is huge. Though I couldn't find a used one at Amazon, just new, you may be able to find it elsewhere. I picked up both PLL and ILL at a used HS book sale; plus I use the TGs; wouldn't do it without. You'd also be able to use ILL with your son when he gets there. A one-time new ILL w/the TG purchase runs a little over $28.00.

Other than that Simply Grammar or English for the Thoughtful Child Vol. 2 would suit her, too ( they don't have TGs ) and are just under $20.00. Again, I don't think they are consumable, so you'd be able to use them w/your son. Just skip the dictation protions in those books, since you're doing SW. I think starting her on consistant LA is a priority over starting LAtin this year; besides, she's already starting German for now.

Your book list looks great. One warning-from experience-the Knight books are highly detailed and it may be difficult for your son to follow, but your dn will be able to.

I've heard great things about The Golden Goblet-nothin' but raves. Yes, G-d King would be over his head, but good for dn. SInce she likes Nature study, perhaps the Nature Journal would be a good start to getting her used to observing and documenting her findings. Arnosky books are great, too and the One Small Square books perhaps (again, library choices)?

I'm doing the same as you; though continuing through the Middle Ages within the Renaissance/Reformation/Explorer period and Ancient Egypt. The R. Syme books are great, btw.

If you can squeeze in Stories of the Pilgrims, either as an audio or a read aloud, it's very good. There's also American History Stories on audio from Hodges or Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 (which is your time period and then-some) for free at Librivox.

I think you are doing AWESOME!

With my respect,

Rachel

bumping this up so you don't forget me :)

Just a little bump, a nudge even.... to remind anyone out there looking that I'd really love any input on the schedule . Thanks!

Here's the additional read alouds:

American History:

Lief the Lucky d'Aulaires

Viking Adventure by Bulla, 21 chapters

Columbus by d'Aulaires 60 pages

Columbus Story by Dagliesh 30 pages

John Cabot and his Son Sebastian by Syme, 95 pages

Ponce de Leon:Explorer of FL by Molzahn, 48 pgs

Balboa:Finder of the Pacific by Syme, 92 pgs

DeSoto:Finder of the Mississippi by Syme, 96 pgs

Conquista! by Bulla, 6 chs.

The Carving on the Tree by Campbell, 88 pgs

Walter Raleigh by Syme, 96 pgs

Jamestown:New World Adventure by Knight, 32 pgs

A Lion to Guard Us by Bulla, 117 pgs

John Smith of Virginia by Syme, 9 chapters

Pocahontas by d'Aulaires, 38 pgs

Henry Hudson by Syme, 11 chs.

The Thanksgiving Story by Dagliesh, approx 40 pgs

John Billington:Friend of Squanto by Bulla, 88 pgs

and up to Chapter 30 in the Guerber spine

Ancient History:

The True Story of Noah's Ark

Life in the Great Ice Age by Oard, 48 pgs

Heiroglyphs by Milton, 32 pgs

Pyramid by Macaulay, 78 pgs

Mummies Made in Egypt by Aliki (one day read)

Tut's Mummy Lost and Found by Donnelly, 48 pgs

Growing Up in Ancient Egypt, by David, 32 pgs

Moses by Fister, 30 pgs

God King by Williamson, 20 chapters - I may just assign this to my niece - it might be over ds's head, but the library had it so that's why I put it in.

Esther's Story by Wolkstein, 40 pgs

Possible additional reading for dn:

Hatshepsut, His Majesty, Herself by Adronik or The Golden Goblet by McGraw

Hittite Warrior - Williamson (didn't want to read this now w/ds bc will read it second time through)

So, we are finished week 2 with my niece and next week we have off. So, I will be working more on our plan too. Here's our schedule:

9-9:30 Bible (alternating OT and NT, beginning in Gen.), Hymn, Scripture Memory, read one poem - this term is Robert Louis Stevenson.  Oops, forgot Character once a week. Dn will read Wisdom and the Millers independently, and Ds will read from A child's Book of Character (I think this is what its called - its the one on the SCM Curriculum Guide) with me and his little brother.

9:30 Ancient History - Guerber's Story of the Ancient World is our spine; We use Knowledge Quest's geography (Ancient World) where it fits in - there will be periods during the year where there is a long span between lessons, so we'll do map drills of Africa and also use our Geopuzzle of Africa to supplement.  Throughout the year I have several addtional books planned. Here's some: True Story of Noah's Ark, Life in the Great Ice Age, Pyramid, Hieroglyphs, jeez, there's a bunch more but I'm not at home so I don't have the list handy. So we'll read a ch. from guerber, I ask for a narration from both kids, sometimes we do a picture w/a caption or short description for their notebooks. We also color timeline figures for our wall timeline.

9:45 - Math - DN is just starting SCM Business Math, which she will mostly do independently, I also ordered the Math Games book from Right Start so we can work on her multiplication facts; DS will do RightStart level B; I plan on putting her in either level d or E when she finishes the Business Math.

10:00 German & Reading - The kids switch off, while one is doing German the other is reading. We are using the Learnables level 1 for German. I just gave dn Heidi to read and ds is still working through Stories of Great Americans (which I actually put down for a while, don't ask why I don't know - and he's been asking for it :)).

10:30-10:40 Break

10:40 Copywork/Phonics  - dn is doing cursive passages from Robert Louis Stevenson, ds does 2 lessons from a phonics workbook, then copywork the other 3 days. This is done independently by both (though sometimes ds has a question w/phonics)

10:50 American History - we are using Guerber's Story of the 13 Colonies as a spine. I plan on taking 3 years to get through it. I'm also using TQ to add living books to the schedule. I have a ton scheduled - but they all fit for the year, so that's cool. We'll mostly focus on the explorers. I bought pretty much all of the Ronald Syme books on the individual explorers. There's also a couple of Bulla books and some other stuff as we move forward. I'd like to get just beyond the pilgrims this year. So, we just finished Lief the Lucky and have started Viking Adventure, by Bulla. The kids are both coloring some pictures I found while I read, which we'll put in their notebook. We also do the timeline figures where appropriate. They narrate of course.

This is an area where I'm unsure of how to proceed with my niece. I'm afraid she should have more knowledge about this period than she will by going at our pace. Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

11:00 Apologia Astronomy - both kids are doing ths together. We read some everyday and keep the notebook. I'm pretty surprised at dn's narrations - they're good. I can tell she absorbs a lot more than ds does (but he is after all only 7).

11:15 Nature Study - once a week. Trying to do Handbook Of Nature study Outdoor Challenges Summer Study.

11:15 Literature - we're using mostly AO for this. We do a chapter out of Burgess Bird Book every other week and color a picture like the bird we are learning about. We do 2 Aesop's Fables per week. Then alternate Just So Stories, a fairy tale selection (not using Blue Fairy Book bc its SO long for ds), and Beautiful Stories from Shakespeare (which I think are only 6 for the whole year ???).  Now, I added another Lit selection for her as noted above, starting with Heidi simply because I had it on my shelf, :). Not sure where we'll go from here, but I doubt she's ready for Robin Hood.

Lunch, play, take her home

At home for dn: Literature wi/ her mom. Starting out w/Charlotte's Web, then Wind in the Willows, etc. I'll keep giving them suggestions as they go on.

I posted on another thread that the child is very interested in nature study and so I'm looking at supplementing with something there. Maybe one of the nature journals that was suggested, maybe the Christian Liberty Nature Readers (which btw, I looked at and am really unsure of which to start her with). IDK

After our week off, I will add in Dictation using SCM Spelling Wisdom book 1, typing, and possibly Latin using the SCM guide suggestion. I wasn't sure if I should do anything more with her as far as a language arts program. I was looking at the SCM book on that, but its a little expensive for me right now considering I'm having to add things for dn.

So how's it look?

No, my niece doesn't live with me, but she lives close enough. Its about 15-20 minutes away. Her mom drops her off at 9 am and I take her home after lunch and a little play so she's home a little after 1pm or so. I'm excited that they are finally giving me the chance to do this. Her mom is totally supportive and willing to take on more with her if need be. But she's trying to take college classes for nursing and also has another child who is only 3, so her hands are pretty full in my opinion. And I've already done so much research and planning that would take my sis-in-law a lot of time that she really doesn't have right now. Honestly, I'm really happy to do it, and so far, its been good for my older son (who turns 7 in August). He adores his cousin and looks up to her, so he's really psyched that she wants to home school like he does. And she's good for horror stories about public school - lol! We actually live in a decent area - the schools are still small, its rural, so there aren't a lot of the problems you see in larger schools. But the lame education is still there!

I agree.  Good grades doesn't really mean they are doing much learning.  My boys got great grades at PS, but my older son doesn't feel he has much of a handle on multiplication & division and some of the other topics in math -- mostly, I think, because of the spiral learning.  They don't have the opportunity to gain real confidence in what they are doing.  He is very well spoken, and we have been doing some narration with our family read-a-louds (I haven't told him that's what he's doing.  I just usually ask for a summary of what we read the day before or ask some leading questions that cause him to put some thought into his answers.  It is this wonderful ability to verbalize that has carried him through PS so far despite his dysgraphia.  I have some ideas as to how best to approach him learning wise.  I thought he would be more a hands on learner, but now I'm thinking audio.  It will be interesting to see how this year plays out.

Does your neice live with you?  I have a nephew, 13, who has been in special classes since about grade 2 who I would love to homeschool as I know he is capabile of far more than the school is doing with him.  Unfortunately he lives with his mother 3 hours away. 

I agree.  Good grades doesn't really mean they are doing much learning.  My boys got great grades at PS, but my older son doesn't feel he has much of a handle on multiplication & division and some of the other topics in math -- mostly, I think, because of the spiral learning.  They don't have the opportunity to gain real confidence in what they are doing.  He is very well spoken, and we have been doing some narration with our family read-a-louds (I haven't told him that's what he's doing.  I just usually ask for a summary of what we read the day before or ask some leading questions that cause him to put some thought into his answers.  It is this wonderful ability to verbalize that has carried him through PS so far despite his dysgraphia.  I have some ideas as to how best to approach him learning wise.  I thought he would be more a hands on learner, but now I'm thinking audio.  It will be interesting to see how this year plays out.

Does your neice live with you?  I have a nephew, 13, who has been in special classes since about grade 2 who I would love to homeschool as I know he is capabile of far more than the school is doing with him.  Unfortunately he lives with his mother 3 hours away. 

The Burgess BIrd book may be too young for her; it depends upon her reading level (which you don't know). Since she's been in the gov't. school system, I think Just So Stories and Aesop's FAbles would be a great way to start. You definitely want her independent studies o be higher than your 1st grader's.

I'd wait on LAtin and Plutarch studies till next year; let this year be one of getting her introduced to classic living books and spark that love of learning. This will be a discovery year for both of you as well as a more rigorous year than she would've had in GS.

Do you have  a LA programfor her? That's something she woul need that your son wouldn't. HOw about the Apologia science texts for her to read on her own, using the Journal to write in? She and your son could do the experiments together, with her leading and you overseeing. I'm sure she needs that creationist viewpoint. Of course, there are other good creation science texts out there, but Apologia is so conversational.

I'd write more, but I have to go for now. Could you provide what you have in mind for her (and those for family) for the different subjects? Maybe we can work out a plan. Obviously, staying in Am.H., she just needs her own independent history lit. reading and she listens in on your reading aloud; start her on narrating history and literature. The younger reading selections will benefit her beginning narrating skills, IMO.

LAter,

Rachel

4myboys - lol, she is my niece. She's been in ps up until now. She's been asking/begging to be hs'd since last year, so we're giving it a try. Thanks for the input - that helps a lot.

And cre8something - I totally agree with you. Most people think as long as the grades are good, they are learning. But don't have any real idea of their strengths or weaknesses or like you say, if they love learning. This is one reason I really love hsing! Thanks for the book suggestion too - I'm gonna check it out!

I'm loving this discussion. I also have a 4th grader just starting HSing this year. It is strange for me as well not really having the knowledge of how well he did with the math or LA or any of the subjects that he was being taught other than his grades were good. Many at private schools just want to see that their children are making good grades. Do they really love to learn though?  My goal is to try to get most things completed before lunch and like Cedargirl do nature study, science and that kind of thing in the afternoon.

I do remember reading one of the free downloadable books on this website that said to start slow beginning with the basics then adding the others...art, music, poetry etc.. (page 29 of Getting Started in Homeschooling) I love these free books by Sonya Shafer.

Ok -- I'm really confused: is the grade 4 student your daughter?  Your neice?  Also, it sounds like you are possibly using AO?  I take it she is coming from PS, like my two boys are this year.  I have in mind to limit there day for the time being to a maximum of 3.5 hours -- approximately an hour of independant work, 1.5 hours family work, and the remaining time for directed learning and whatever independant work wasn't completed earlier.  They will have to learn quickly not to dawdle in order to get their free time when they want it, however.  My boys will be in 2nd and 5th grade.  I will be expecting more of my older child, naturally, and it is more important to me to get him off to an excellent start because he is more resistant to the idea of HS, and he experiences a different learning challenge than my younger boy (who is ADHD, but thankfully picks up new topics very quickly).  I think 3.5 hours is plenty -- in 5 hours of public school they wouldn't accomplish as much as they will in 3.5 hours of homeschool. 

You may want to build up to that, though.  Establish what is the most important thing(s) that she learn this year and start with that.  For the first couple of weeks you might only do 2-2.5 hours, then increase as you see her progressing.